Plaid must navigate clear green water
Bubble — By Adam Price on December 19, 2011 9:00 am
Can the future be bright if it's green?
IN HIS first epistle to the Corinthians, St Paul makes the telling point that Christianity without the hope of eternal life is a pretty empty creed: “If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.”
This same logic surely applies to Welsh nationalism. Without independence as our goal, what, frankly, is the point? We might as well have spent our time in the metaphorical (or in some cases, quite literal) pub.
With such an unusually large proportion of the party’s upper echelons being either ministers of religion or sons of the Manse, the analogy is particularly apt. As a miner’s son whose conversion to the cause of Welsh independence was more of an ideological inconvenience growing up in Ammanford, I find ambivalence on the national question within the national movement a tad perplexing. If I had wanted a life of political posturing that was agnostic on the question of independence I might have joined the Liberals. If wielding power were my over-riding objective then I would have joined Labour. I didn’t because I was convinced that Welsh nationalism was a real, live emancipatory political project with a goal in sight to be achieved within my lifetime.
Of course, nationalism as some form of transcendalist abstraction is also to be abjured. In this vein Simon Thomas is right to say that we need to talk credibly about the issues of deepest concern to the people of Wales in the here and now. But as my own experience in Carmarthen East and Dinefwr demonstrates, it is possible to take a bold and radical position on independence while continuing to enlarge our support among non-traditional supporters.
At the risk of becoming the Welsh Jim Sillars, offering unwanted advice from the wings, I would argue that it is critical that the candidates for leadership do three things:
Firstly, they must offer up a plan for the party, which, given where we are, has to be by its very nature a long-term plan. Of course each party needs to fight each and every election to win. But the reality is that we are probably facing an extended period of opposition. Labour’s visceral hatred of everything we stand for means inevitably, as we saw during the Budget negotiations, that the Liberals, even while stained by the Tory collaborationist tag, will always be their preferred partners. There will be no One Wales two.
Emulating the SNP’s success, however, is unlikely to be achieved in one election cycle from where we currently stand. Welsh Labour is already the longest-serving national party in continued office within the EU, with the single exception of Luxembourg’s Christian Social People’s Party. By 2020, Labour will have been in power for 21 years. This seems to me to be the ideal time for us to mark the maturing of Welsh democracy through the election of a non-Labour alternative. The period out of power over the next nine years needs to be seen as a historic opportunity to challenge Labour’s hegemony.
For us to achieve this goal we need a plan for Wales. Instead of emphasising those areas where, notionally at least, Labour agrees with us – the importance of social justice, equal rights, an anti-PFI stance or combating of climate change – we must highlight the points of radical difference. And we really need to be able to boil this down to just three things that we repeat constantly. The over-riding theme must surely be that Wales is under-developed in terms of the three great Es – the economy, the environment and education. Our narrative therefore would focus on closing Offa’s gap – the prosperity divide between Wales and the rest of the UK; on resilience – building a Wales that is independent and self-sufficient in the basics of life, energy, water and food – and building a world class education system, making it the spending priority, getting us up the PISA tables, and creating a generation that was genuinely trilingual.
But we also need a plan for independence. To deny this as a movement would be an act of self-immolation. Unlike the current Welsh Government I think targets are a good way of holding yourself to account. So how about independence by 2036, as Elin Jones has suggested? Why not? Five hundred years of colonialism is surely enough, even for us long-suffering Welsh.
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125 Comments
“Jon Jones” has claimed that I called him a liar, but what I actually said was:
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“It’s possible that there is another survey which does support the point he was making. If so, all he has to do is provide a link to it and we will all be able to see whether he is telling the truth.”
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To his credit, he’s now done that (although I don’t see why he didn’t do it as part of the comment he wrote yesterday at 17:16) and we can see that if indeed he was quoting from it he was doing it rather sloppily and then went on to add his customary “embellishment” to it. But never mind, the whole point of providing a link to the source of any figures is for us to be able to see whether they’re correct and the context in which they were given. I only hope that he will now do the same for the other figures he’s quoted. Perhaps he will think of it as a New Year resolution.
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As he’s asked me the question, I can’t remember having misquoted anyone myself, though I’m sure it’s not impossible for me to have done so. But if he would like to tell me where these misquotes are, I’ll gladly correct them if I didn’t do so at the time.
I can see the difference CapM but you are splitting hairs. It’s always a problem when you quote from memory that there is a difference when you go back to look for the source.
The thrust of the argument lies with the view that Welsh speakers are seen as somehow more “Authentic” Welsh people. More deserving perhaps? and of course that they are more Identified by themselves and others with Wales.
It’s this divisive nature to “Culture and Language Nationalism” that is worrying and ultimately why (to return to the subject in hand) Plaid Cymru is ham-strung by its culturally conservative core support from the Fro Cymraeg.
When some Nationalists want Plaid to adopt “The ballot box and the Bullet” (see above extracts from MH@Syniadau dialogue on Independence) Is it unreasonable to look at Identity and Language in the context of Welsh Nationalism? I don’t think so but, as you have seen, to focus on this aspect of Welsh Nationalism is (according to Patrick) “Sectarianism” whilst the advocacy of the “Ballot box and the Bullet” by Nationalists is not.
Depends on your position I suppose. Nevertheless, with the intervention of Michael Haggett in this discussion we have come full circle…… MH wants to remove Lord Daffydd from the Leadership race because of his pragmatic stance and ambivalance in regard to the “I” word. Adam Price, above, joins the hunt in an effort to make sure Elin Jones gets the leadership and, bingo, Lord Daffydd slips into second place in the bookies.
Of course Welsh speakers are more culturally Welsh than non-Welsh speakers. Most people have a mental map of unique ‘Welshness’ that goes something like this…
Welsh-speaking > Valleys > Swansea > Cardiff/Barry/Newport > Marches
Jon Jones seems the classic ‘this one time in bandcamp’ type of debater.
I am confused why the fact that Welsh speakers see themselves as more Welsh is a problem? I mean it’s a self identification, based on the many anchors available to any of us who are ‘Welsh’.
I am curious also what Jon Jones thinks Welsh speakers apparently swimming in job opportunities should do then? Unlearn the language? Not put it on the cv they are applying for?
In my area, the South East, Welsh medium education is booming; parents are choosing for all manner of reasons. Believe me, I wish all those parents voted Plaid, but the simple fact is that they come from all political backgrounds and those with none at all.
It’s the choice of ordinary parents that will eventually bury Jon Jones’ strand of argument; it must really rile Jon Jones something as mundane and non-threatening as that will do so.
Blaidd wrote: “Of course Welsh speakers are more culturally Welsh than non-Welsh speakers. Most people have a mental map of unique ‘Welshness’ that goes something like this…
Welsh-speaking > Valleys > Swansea > Cardiff/ Barry/ Newport > Marches”
Most people? You need to get out more
I stand by my assertion that most people see Welshness as a gradient determined by language. People from Monmouth would probably agree with the statement that they feel Welsh but not as Welsh as people from Carmarthenshire. Parts of Canada feel very much like the US, whereas certain provinces are distincly Canadian… but at the end of the day it’s all Canada.
ask a French person if they thought a French speaker was more French than a non-french speaker?
I had no intention of removing Dafydd from the Plaid Cymru leadership race, as “Jon Jones” has just claimed. The intention behind the complaint was perfectly clear, and people can read about it here: namely that Dafydd Elis-Thomas and Rhodri Glyn Thomas should make clear statements saying they support the aims of Plaid Cymru, and specifically the aim of independence for Wales, in order to undo the damage that their previous statements against independence had caused.
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As we can read here, Rhodri felt unable to do so, and will therefore almost certainly not be selected to be a Plaid Cymru candidate at the next Assembly elections because all candidates will be in future be required in the candidate agreement they sign to explicitly support the aims of the party.
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Dafydd, as we can read in the same post, has now made a remarkable U-turn saying that he enthusiastically supports the aim of independence for Wales in Europe. That is exactly the outcome that I and the other complainants sought. As Glyn Erasmus noted in this letter, no-one can know if he is telling the truth or not. But I for one am willing to take him at his word for now, because he will no doubt be put under a great deal of pressure in both the media and in the leadership hustings to explain this sudden conversion, and we will all be able to decide for ourselves if he was being honest and sincere from how he responds to these questions.
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Changing your mind about independence is not a problem. On the contrary, it is something we should welcome. After all, Wales will only become independent when we vote for it in a referendum. So the conversion of someone who has always been opposed to independence before now will perhaps do more to win over the hearts and minds of people outside the party to independence for Wales than all the damage caused by his previous statements against it.
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However, if it becomes apparent that what he said to Martin Shipton was a lie to further his political career, that career is finished. A lukewarm attitude to independence is not a resigning matter; deliberate deception is.
Hands up who are getting fed up with this thread? I dont feel Welsh I am Welsh despite the fact I was born in Cardiff and my immediate ancestors were Welsh speakers from Monmouthshire ,and they may have lost the language but they did lose who they were. As for the French they do not speak Frankish do they? If the Romans had done a better job in Britannia Magna and evacuated Britain later English may have had a different flavor.
Blaidd, with regard to Monmouthshire I found this article on WalesHome 18 months ago particularly enlightening – and it’s written by a Conservative Assembly Member who is in no doubt where he stands on the issue of Welshness
http://waleshome.org/2010/08/well-keep-the-welsh-flag-flying-here/
Adam Price’s article ‘Plaid must navigate clear green water’ gets off to a throughly bad start. He quotes Paul the Apostle, who died just under two thousand years ago, as arguing that ‘Christianity without hope of eternal life is a pretty empty creed’. If subscribing to that view of things were really a condition of being a Christian these days, I suspect that our churches and chapels would be even emptier than they are and I would most decidedly not be the regular worshipper that I am.
Many, from both ends of the spectrum, including, I now discover, Adam, would argue that my position is untenable. Either you accept the complete package or you count yourself out.
There is of course, a name for the all-or-nothing brigade, who come in several varieties. Either you ‘believe’ the Bible as the directly-inspired word of God, or it’s a load of bunkum. Either you subscribe to every jot and tittle of the Athanasian creed (and not just in metaphorical terms please) or you’re a heretic. The name for such people is ‘fundamentalists’.
I don’t imagine that Adam will want to wear that particular cap, but his argument, following Saint Paul, that Welsh nationalism without ‘independence as our goal’, is pointless, bears a striking resemblance to religious fundamentalism.
For my part, being the son of a notably liberal manse, the vital thing is the development of Wales as a nation, recognised as an equal partner among the other nations of the islands that we inhabit. If that can be accomplished through some kind of Britannic federal or confederal arrangement, well and good. If not, then independence may indeed be the best solution – though what that might imply in terms of actual power is at this stage anybody’s guess.
What I don’t accept is that we in Plaid Cymru should at this stage be unequivocally adamant (forgive the pun) about Wales’s ultimate constitutional destination.
The good news however is that Adam’s article improves as it goes along. (Let’s park for the moment the suggestion that Plaid should leave the job of governing Wales until 2020 to the tender mercies of Labour and the Lib Dems.) What anyone who is seriously committed to a national future for Wales must surely endorse is Adam’s call for Plaid’s core narrative to be based on tackling Wales’s underdevelopment in the three Es: economy, environment and education.
Adam’s contribution to developing the blueprint for achieving this could be crucial. That’s one reason why we need him back in Wales, and in the National Assembly, as soon as possible.
I’m puzzled as to why a federal/confederal system which would inevitably have as it’s chief architect a UK government, taking it’s mandate from England’s electorate, is the preferred option of anyone in Plaid Cymru.
To think that Wales out of the four parts that make up the UK would be given anything more than a minor consideration, regarding any rejigging of the UK is to my mind rather naiive.
If as Cynog Dafis appears to say, that UK governments are not fit or committed to tackling Wales’ underdevelopment why on earth would he put his faith in a UK government producing a federal /confederal system that would, for Wales’ immeadiate and future needs and wants, be fit for purpose.
I notice this morning that David Cameron has noticed that devolution is creeping Independence without the pain and upheaval of creating all the organs of state which an independent nation needs. Scotland voting for Devo-Max gets all the power whilst maintaining the safety net of the Union and not confronting traumatic change.
The Tory answer is to force a referendum in the near term on the whole package….Independence or nothing more. I think that this shows that the Tories have accepted that the Union is over and there can only be one outcome in the long term.
It’ll be interesting to see if they give the same referendum option to Wales.
Jon Jones … why would Westminster consider the issue in Wales, independence is little more than a pipe-dream for a very tiny minority.
I think your interpretation of Cameron’s actions are wrong, it is not an acceptance that the Union is over, rather that the Union is worth competing for, and more to the point, Cameron is taking the initiative from Salmond, Salmond must be seen to win or lose, with a multiple choice referendum Salmond would win no-matter what the outcome, that is the bad outcome for Westminster.
Unless Salmond can raise the dead, “Robert the Bruce” maybe, the independence referendum on a single question will be lost, how long before it raises its head again north of the border.
My personal view is to cut our losses and send them on their way, without a referendum.
“Unless Salmond can raise the dead, “Robert the Bruce” maybe, the independence referendum on a single question will be lost, how long before it raises its head again north of the border.
My personal view is to cut our losses and send them on their way, without a referendum.”
North of what border? Wales doesn’t share a border with Scotland. Then again most ‘British’ nationalists in Wales don’t care about Scotland, Northern Ireland or the Welsh element of their own nation. It’s all about mother England.
MH@Syniadau.
If you would like to say which particular statistics or figures I have used you consider false or, as Patrick says, “Pseudo-statistics” just tell me. In the normal course of writing a post I quote from memory. You of course, in your laboured blog, have the luxury of time to compile your piece. I am working most of the time and only go back to check when confronted by put downs and sneers from people like yourself.
Your own performance is far from perfect I seem to recollect. The problem is that when any of us writes from a particular viewpoint we are very willing to accept at face value any statistical “Good news”. You did this when the Welsh Language Board published their “Research” into motivation and attitudes of parents sending their children to Welsh Medium schools.
http://www.clickonwales.org/2011/06/english-speaking-wales-jumps-language-barrier/
Of course it was a nonsense poll which the WLB had to retract and apologise for. Nevertheless you defended the poll when you knew that it was rubbish….worse you went further and said that I was probably lying when I said that only 24% of Welsh speakers taking part in a survey for Consumer Focus Wales by Beaufort Research (into provision of services through the medium of Welsh)actually chose to answer the survey in Welsh.
The problem is that you are willing to call me a liar at the drop of a hat without actually considering the facts.
I looked at the the Welsh Language Board’s research because it was at odds with surveys carried out into school preferences that already existed (Wrexham, Vale of Glamorgan, Newport) and research into parental attitudes to Bilingual schooling in Ireland and Scotland. The WLB has produced dodgy surveys for as long as I can remember so it’s always good for a laugh to look at the methodology.
Similarly I corrected you when you misinterpreted General Teaching Council figures on supply of Welsh Medium teachers…were you grateful??
Your latest attempt to smear me on this forum was amazing….you leap out of the bushes (I suppose that, since you were a “Troll”, in this case it should be “cave”) making the accusation that I was cunningly misrepresenting the 2000 WLB Omnibus “Attitudes” survey when I was fairly accurately repeating the findings of the 1995 survey. The WLB asked this particular question only once…. the answer was obviously potentially “difficult” in that it risked alienating one section of Welsh people from another.
You will recollect that this is just my point about Culture and Language Nationalism….it is divisive.
As for this:
“As he’s asked me the question, I can’t remember having misquoted anyone myself, though I’m sure it’s not impossible for me to have done so. But if he would like to tell me where these misquotes are, I’ll gladly correct them if I didn’t do so at the time.”
” MH on Mon 27 Apr 2009 – 14:13
.An interesting piece of research on attitudes to bilingual policies is in the news today
In a nutshell it says that:
76% … consider it important for companies to advertize their products or services bilingually
82% … said Welsh was something to be proud of
81% … said they believed training staff to speak Welsh was important
The survey was conducted by Beaufort, who asked a sample of 1000 people over 16. As 11% considered themselves fluent in Welsh (compared with Language Use Survey data of 12.12%) it would appear to be a properly weighted survey.”
Is this honest Michael or is it a mis-representation of the poll’s information??
Meanwhile, back on the topic of the Plaid leadership election and the future direction of Plaid;
Adam Price has come out in favour of Leanne Wood over the Badger Butcher. Thi is consistent with his previous published view of the direction Plaid must take.
I think that victory for Ms Woods would be a coup for Plaid and a blessing for Wales. A woman from the Heartlands of Wales rather that the eccentric Western extremties, a republican and radical socialist who can drag political discourse and, hopefully, policy leftwards. Above all someone who can rescue Plaid from the mill stone of its “Culture and Language” right wing Ideologues.
As Sionnyn has already remarked…language politics is a dead duck for Plaid; there is no point in banging the drum for Language Nationalism when there is no indication that the incumbent Labour party isn’t going to support the language anyway.
Elin Jones remains the favourite with the bookies but momentum is with Leanne Wood…..not to mention my Comrades from the South, recently keen to become Plaid Members.
John Tyler;
“Jon Jones … why would Westminster consider the issue in Wales, independence is little more than a pipe-dream for a very tiny minority.”
I recognise that independence usually has something like 10% support in Wales but I also think that I have seen a poll that says Welsh Independence has 30% support in England. But I have seen no recent polling on the “I” question…have you? The point is that Cameron will be more swayed by the opinion of the English electorate than the Welsh.
He has, of course, tried to outmaneuvre Salmond who had a Win-Win position….Independence 2014 or sometime soon after. But why wouldn’t he use the same tactic in Wales?
To repeat what I’ve said before, I think every statistic quoted by “Jon Jones” should not be taken seriously unless he is prepared to provide a link to substantiate it. As anyone who has read this thread will see, the link he eventually provided has shown that he wasn’t being truthful.
He’s now provided a link to a story on ClickOnWales into which I had no input and made no comment as something which reflects on me. But if anyone is interested, what I in fact said about the same survey is here on Syniadau. I would also note that out of all those that reported this story when it was released, I was the only one to have pointed out that some things in the press release were not backed up by the findings of the survey itself, and I put the survey on line so that everyone could see what it said for themselves.
And, as anyone can read here, I was grateful to him for pointing out that there were two anomalies in the Welsh Government’s figures on teacher training. But I certainly didn’t misquote the figures, and the anomalies don’t affect the fact that there has been a downward trend in the number of new teachers who are qualified to teach bilingually.
Finally he quotes from a post I wrote on Syniadau in 2009, giving it as an example of something I supposedly misquoted but, yet again, without providing a link so that others can see what I actually said in the context I said it. It’s here. People can see for themselves whether I was misquoting anything, misrepresenting anything, or being dishonest.
Re writing history Michael? You only looked at the details of the survey and added a link to it AFTER I pointed out that it was rubbish.
I printed out your post referring to the WLB Beaufort Research omnibus survey, now you have provided a link but the link does not access the part of the survey that you are (allegedly) quoting. Your heading for this piece was:-
“76% want goods and services advertised bilingually”
If we look at the survey itself we find that what the question asked was; “If an organisation wants to offer customers bilingual services, how important do you think it is that an organisation should ensure that its marketing materials and advertisements are bilingual?”
Apart from being a leading question it’s actually a “No Brainer” If an organisation wants to offer a bilingual service by definition it has to use bilingual marketing materials.
Links aren’t everything, particularly from people like yourself Michael.
In the post from 2009, I was simply translating a story that had only appeared in Welsh on the BBC website into English and provided a link to the original, as I usually do when I quote something. It was definitely not added later, as “Jon Jones” has claimed. It’s another of his lies. It’s only a shame that the BBC didn’t provide a link to the survey they were quoting, then we could all have seen whether what they reported was true or not. But the survey is here, or at least I think it must be this one because the percentages match.
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People can decide for themselves how much of their brain people used when giving their opinions. I would point out that a good number of organizations say they offer a bilingual service, but in reality fail to do so. That is why questions asking about staff, self-service tills, marketing materials, advertisements, badges, packaging and websites are relevant.
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As I pointed out in the post, even though Meirion Prys Jones of BYIG is quoted as saying that both HSBC and NatWest had introduced some web pages in Welsh, both sites had no pages in Welsh as far as I could see. So these were timely examples of companies saying they provide a bilingual service, but in fact only doing so in the most cursory way. I’ve just looked again, and HSBC still doesn’t seem to have any web pages in Welsh. NatWest now has a few, but once people reach this page, the headings and more abouts link to pages only available in English. That’s not a bilingual service, that’s just lip-service to bilingualism.
Sorry to disappoint you Jon Jones but Leanne Wood is arguably the biggest supporter of the Welsh language out of the four contenders. Having learned Welsh, she’s been a guest speaker at numerous Cymdeithas yr Iaith rallies and believes in promoting the language and in its protection from further deterioration. This is a piece from her leadership race campaign:
“We must work to shake off the perception that Plaid Cymru is only concerned with the interests of those who speak Welsh, but this must be done in a way that is unapologetic in our support for the Welsh language. We should work to establish the right to speak Welsh as an equalities issue, with protection against discrimination on the grounds of language use. A combination of legislation and public education has changed acceptable public attitudes towards racism, sexism, homophobia, disability. It remains socially acceptable to ridicule and discriminate against people who speak Welsh. Our vision is of an inclusive Wales, where all of us who live here have the right to live in a society which is as equal as we can make it. We must seek to support the necessary and challenging economic, legislative and policy changes to secure the future of the language as a thriving language at a community level.”
Would this rule out your vote if you were a Plaid Cymru member
Sorry to disappoint you Y teifi but I’m well aware of Leanne Wood’s position on the Welsh Language. Yes I would vote for her because of her socialist principals; genuine socialist principles are like hen’s teeth in Plaid.
Michael;
“In the post from 2009, I was simply translating a story that had only appeared in Welsh on the BBC website into English and provided a link to the original, as I usually do when I quote something. It was definitely not added later, as “Jon Jones” has claimed.”
When I said:-
“You only looked at the details of the survey and added a link to it AFTER I pointed out that it was rubbish.”
I was referring to the piece that you wrote on the Welsh Language Board’s voodoo poll in 2011 not the piece in 2009. But you know that I imagine.
As for your justification of your piece in 2009; it’s laughable. The Welsh Language Board mis-represented its own survey in its annual report, in just the same way that you did. You and they, by leaving out the full question (you just put:”……..”) the significance of the answer is changed.
I have to say that Waleshome must be less than pleased that this private spat is carried on on their pages but Iv’e got an Idea; next time I quote a statistic on Syniadau, publish it and allow everyone to discuss it instead of throwing a Hissy-Fit and censoring my post. I repeat what I have said before; not all information can be linked to online and no one is going to thank me for pasting complex excel spreadsheets (it’s not easy) and data sets into a forum.
OK John, I’ve popped back here intermittently to see if you managed to prove or retract the views you imputed to me (my accusation being that you can’t argue with people without making things up about them, which so far still seems to hold), and you seem not to have. Clearly from the frequency of your postings, it’s not for lack of internet access…
Moreover, no justification yet for your nasty use of Nazi-style terms such as ‘Uber-Cymraeg’ to smear kids who go to Welsh school, or other associated terms such as ‘racism’, ‘xenophobia’ etc. which are part of a dangerous hollowing out of meaningful terminology for essentially petty Welsh-bashing. And you call yourself a socialist, though you’re happy to cheapen the language of racism.
No explanation for that culture-reducing ongoing smear you specialise in (if you’re the JH Jones from Ynyn Mon who writes to the Western Mail, one of your finest moments was using a ‘Turks allan’ sign on a kebab shop in Caernarfon to demonstrate that Welsh-speakers were more racist because they were, essentially, Welsh-speakers).
No evidence for your constant allegations of welsh-medium schools being rife with bullying (part of being a troll is that you never need to provide evidence), and a constant attempt to ‘speak for’ people who aren’t Welsh or don’t speak Welsh. Except when they’re people who disagree with you, in which case we’re some kind of aberration – the ‘wrong kind’ of incomer, like me.
You routinely accuse people of being racist , xenophobes, fascists, being liars, being ‘Uber-Cymraeg’ (this one you reserve for children, it appears)etc, but whenever anyone challenges you, they’re ‘sneering’ , throwing ‘hissy fits’ etc.
You argue like a baby, giving it out but unable to take it.
So, one more time: provide evidence the specific allegations you make against me, and address the other points I’ve made about your own tactics and the reductive and monomaniacal worldview they display.
It’s no good implying (with the term ‘your mate MH’) that I’m part of some kind of conspiracy against you (another revealing feature of your style is that everyone who disagrees with you must be in it together – I guess that comes free with the bunker mentality) – I’d like you to find me the evidence for your allegations. In the form of a quotation, please, referenced if you like, since you’re a bit of a stickler.
I’m around all day, having goose-stepped my uber-cymraeg 5 and 7 year olds to that hotbed of xenopbobia, Ysol Y Gelli, where they join a variety of children from all backgrounds and races for lessons is cultural supremacy. Perhaps as a good Socialist you should come and picket the place?
But only after you’ve found some proof for the statements you attribute to me.
As I’ve already told “Jon Jones”, it’s very easy for him or anyone else to upload and link to a complex Excel spreadsheet or almost any other type of file in a forum. And it’s free. Just use Opendrive or Fileden. No excuses.