The dragon’s mute allies
Wales Business — By Steffan Powell on July 28, 2010 7:00 am
Where's the fire? Some of S4C's friends need to be told
MANY people in Wales will have seen or heard of this story that appeared in the Media Guardian last week. Given the recent hype surrounding cuts in public spending, there is little no surprise that S4C is also facing the swinging axe of doom. The news comes as even less of a shock given that Jeremy Hunt, the new Culture Secretary, has been keen to lead the way with the coalition government’s plans for austerity measures.
It was another bad news day for S4C, which must be starting to feel like the unlucky kid in school, always singled out for special treatment by the class bullies. First its Clirlun HD channel received a lukewarm welcome. Then the Western Mail splashed about the channel’s viewing figures - or lack of – on its front page. This was followed by mentions in The Sun, The Daily Mail and on Have I Got News for You. And it has also had to deal with former Welsh Office Minister Rod Richards telling anyone and everyone that it is a waste of money. A tough time, all in all.
So is this loss of political capital emboldening the DCMS enough to give the channel a bit of a kicking? Have S4C’s years of service to the Welsh economy and creative industries been forgotten? Perhaps the most pressing question, therefore, is where have S4C’s champions gone? So far there’s been a distinct lack of drum-banging in defence of Wales’ beleaguered fourth channel. Why is that?
Someone told me the other day that if this was Scotland then the claymores would already be out and the Tartan Army would be busy defending its own, reminding everyone of how important this was to Scotland and the people of Scotland.
It is almost as if people have given up on the channel, that they have succumbed to the barrage of bad press and critics who belittle it as a waste of taxpayers’ money. A channel that gets a £100 million a year and spends it on programmes that no-one watches.
So what about the good things that have come from S4C? And why don’t we hear more about them?
In 2007, a Cardiff Business school report estimated that S4C was responsible for the equivalent of 2,254 full time jobs. That figure doesn’t even include the staff that the BBC employed to make programming for the channel. Another report, on the creative industries in Wales and written by Professor Ian Hargreaves intimated that while S4C has scope for improving and developing , it is a vital part of the industry here and therefore important to the Welsh economy as well.
The creative industries have been singled out as one of the six central sectors of the Welsh economy. Its role is particularly important because of its recent growth and the added value that it offers. Given that Wales’ economic performance is suffering – recent figures show a 9.1% unemployment rate here– the creative industries have provided a small light at the end of the tunnel.
Some independent production companies in Wales have used S4C as a stepping-stone for further success. Vibrant businesses have grown off the back of S4C funding. Tinopolis, for example, was recently listed in the Sunday Times top 100 private equity backed companies in Britain. Some of the UK’s ‘crown jewel’ programmes – like Question Time and the Grand National – are made by the company. True, more production houses could be spreading their wings, as Professor Hargreaves suggests, but we can at least see that Welsh companies are capable of growing through S4C.
The jobs provided by production companies in Wales boost local economies – the local coffee shop where everyone gets their morning Americano, nearby B&Bs that house the crews on production shoots, the wholesalers who supply food for canteens, the list goes on…
Even though it is a huge benefit, economics was never the main driving force behind S4Cs creation. It is widely accepted that over the past 30 years S4C has had a vital part to play in the cultural development of Wales. There are others who will better articulate the importance of the channel to the Welsh language, but it’s these outcomes that have made the investment worthwhile for so many people.
I was lucky enough to have benefited from an S4C scholarship in the past and know of others, not all just journalist types, who have gone on to do really well because of similar support. S4C has nurtured talent that has gone on to entertain, inform and educate people across Britain and the World. Just ask Alex Jones, the new presenter of The One Show, what she makes of the opportunities given to her by S4C.
So why is it that none of S4Cs big name friends have come out of the closet and told the world why they think that the channel is important to Wales?
It’s impossible to argue that S4C should maintain every penny of its £101,647 million grant. In a time where benefits are being curtailed, schools in England are not being rebuilt and the army is reducing in size, of course the channel has to accept some pain. But is this level of cut proportionate? Are other DCMS projects, like the Olympics, having their budgets cut by 24% as well?
But the political reaction to last Thursday’s Media Guardian story has disappointed many who work in the sector. The naivety shown in some of the responses is staggering.
Alun Cairns MP suggested that these possible cuts are an “opportunity” for S4C. Eleanor Burnham hopes that S4C could trim its budgets by 24% through efficiency savings and management restructuring alone. And the Welsh Government has said that it is “concerned”. Hardly inspirational stuff, especially considering that in the parties’ manifestos there were promises to:
“…develop Wales burgeoning media and film sectors, and help to stimulate Welsh film and TV production” (Welsh Liberal Democrats)
And:
“We must also continue to protect Welsh language broadcasting and S4C, which make an invaluable contribution to the Welsh language and the creative industries in Wales.”(Welsh Conservatives)
Whether you agree with this level of cut or not, this isn’t an opportunity. There are most likely plenty ‘efficiency savings’ to be made. But these cuts, if they go ahead, will do more than reduce the number of faceless middle managers , unnecessary bureaucracy and paper clips.
A 24% cut to S4Cs budget – that’s roughly £25million – will impact on jobs in the creative industries in Wales. It will affect the quality of output and it will impact local economies that rely on production companies and their staff spending money in shops. If companies like Barcud Derwen failed before the cuts then we could be facing more of the same.
S4Cs champions – people who have reached the top of their profession because of S4C, people who have fame, influence or both - need to kick up a stink if they want to help the channel out.
S4C will always have its detractors. It will always have those who can’t think of anything worse than spending public money on a channel that services only a small proportion of the population. And it is by no stretch of imagination a perfect TV station. But it has been too easy recently to jump on the anti-S4C bandwagon and forget some the good things it does.
The next few years are going to be tough for S4C, with or without cuts. It would be a whole lot easier if some of the channels friends came and helped out a bit.
Tags: cuts, Jeremy Hunt, S4/C, Welsh Language
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56 Comments
The author does not pose the question, “Why are the viewing figures so low?”.
Is the answer that S4C does not provide programmes that the viewers require? Or is it that the ever growing multiplicity of channels has diluted its audience as has happened to the major broadcasters?
Perhaps it is time to move forward and develop S4C into a bilingual Wales channel – after all it accepts adverts in English – or is that anathema to the purists? This would allow a greater ready audience for sales of programmes overseas.
If it is to remain a Welsh language only channel – could it become a subscription channel? Would its advocates be prepared to pay say £20 per month. To support a £80milion budget, that would require around 350,000 subscribers, about half the Welsh speaking population. If we allow for a public subsidy of 50%, then the subscribers required would be 175,000 – could those be found? Or does money talk when so many programmes in English are available, without extra cost – even though a significant portion of the Welsh population subscribe to Sky.
Notwithstanding past manifestos, we now live in very difficult times – almost as bad economically as 1945. As Liam Byrne’s final note to his successor said, “There is no money”. Radical times require radical thinking and associated action, some sacred cows will have to be slaughtered if the project is to survive.
If the Guardian story is correct, S4C will have a 6% cut for each of the next 4 years.
So the immediate concern will be to find £6m of cuts.
Before we look at where that might come from, let’s just remind ourselves that S4C is not a TV company in the conventional sense. They don’t make TV shows or employ actors, producers or newsreaders. S4C is primarily a commissioning company, but with a number of other commercial and public interests.
This is highly relevant, because it means that the management of S4C is biased toward heavyweight commercial and managerial skills, rather than creative talent (although I’m sure that they have that too).
So, as someone with no experience in broadcasting or TV (but that’s never stopped my before) here’s a few ideas of how to find £6m :
1 – Reduce their target performance. The S4C Annual Report highlights all their broadcasting targets Such as “Percentage of hours of peak viewing when they show original programmes”. The target is 90%, so that means they are “allowed” to broadcast 10% of their output during peak hours are repeats. Currently they outperform this and, remarkably, achieve 100%.
2 – Squeeze the BBC commissioning. Each hour of BBC programmes cost S4C £89k. Each hour of independent commissioning costs £52k.
3 – Commission less drama. Each hour of Drama costs £207k. Each hour of sport costs £60k.
4 – Broadcast more Rugby. The top 5 most popular shows on S4C last year were :
• 1 Jan – New Years day Rugby – Ospreys vs Cardiff Blues (427,000 viewers)
• 6 June – USA v Wales Test match (301,000)
• Kathryn Jenkins concert (237,000)
• 24 Nov – Blues vs Australia (212,000)
• 6 Nov – Gwent Dragons v Sale (183,000)
So, what’s all the fuss about?
Will losing £6m next year kill off S4C – No, they have the managerial ability to reduce costs and keep their valuable contribution to Welsh culture alive.
Can we move on now please?
Perhaps it is time, in the twenty-first century to stop thinking “how do we support S4C” and re-ask the question “How do we provide dynamic, engaging entertainment, news coverage, culture, journalism, drama…. in Welsh to the Welsh people?”. Is S4C – a model of centralised commissioning for broadcast television – the right model for multi device media consumption and creation? This week we have a YouTube video about Newport reaching an audience of 1.6 million viewers.
Channel 4 are waking up to this situation. They have given up on school’s tv and put that budget into alternative forms of distribution and creation through the 4iP project. This still begs the question why does it need a “national commissioning body”. I suspect that providing media in Welsh will still deserve tax-payer subsidy. However I suspect that the revenue structures of the broadcast era are not the model that will or should support the provision of media to Wales in Welsh as we go forward. I don’t think that S4C, or the companies they support are doing the hard thinking (Euryn Ogwen – are you still there?)
Should I be a friend of S4C or should I be a friend of the future of Welsh language media?
Commission less drama / Broadcast more rugby ..?
So what David Jones is saying is never mind what’s broadcast as long as it’s ‘popular’. Yes, I’m sure that’ll keep the industry on its feet.
The one thing which concerns me more than anything is the way which viewing figures are collected. So few Welsh speaking people have one of BARB’s boxes, as was pointed out by Carl Morris in his blog at the time of Sgorio-gate that the figures supplied are more or less meaningless.
So what IS the solution (if there is a problem) for S4C?
Continued funding to main it as a standalone Welsh-language channel in a narrowcast universe? Or retraction, of the kind some are seeking from the BBC, to core purpose?
The coincidence is marked between an English-language commercial channel which is now failing to represent Wales as many had hoped and the Welsh-language channel that’s actually doing a far better job at representing our communities, but in the other language and with funding pressures.
Is this an *opportunity?*? Or is the compulsion for a Welsh-only service still so strong?
Twas never always thus, pre-digital. Could other operators be mustered to provide English-language programming by day (as in the S4C/C4 days, but Welsh), while S4C retains peak time hours?
I don’t know.
I don’t think having a few high profile people championing S4C will help with their troubles. The simple truth is, the channel’s cultural impact on Wales is lower than ever. A large demographic of the Welsh speaking public do not watch the channel, and therefore, feel no compulsion or desire to defend something that they don’t have a relationship with. With the exception of a few good dramas, a large output of S4C’s content has looked archaic, and sometimes embarrassing (Tippit, etc). To win back plaudits, they have to win back viewers. The fact that they couldn’t achieve with their current significant budget – the envy of similar-size broadcasters throughout Europe – does not bode well for the future. Hopefully, the cuts in funding will make them radically rethink their relationship, and relevancy, to the people of Wales, and recommissioning shows with low viewing figures from the independent powerhouses is not the answer. This issue is about the future, not the past, and S4C’s up-hill struggle to appeal to a younger demographic. With the demise of ITV Wales, we need another home for English language Welsh content, and S4C is the obvious platform. There are difficult decisions ahead for the broadcaster, but there could be exciting times as well if they are willing to take risks to seem relevant once again.
Steffan Powell raises an excellent and justifiable defense of S4C. However, without (a lot) more (and different) viewers or unique and compelling programming that people must see (or record) then it is difficult to see how it can continue as it is. Regretfully, I haven’t watched anything on S4C for over five years since I got bored with Pobol y Cwm – not even rugby. I can’t think of anyone Welsh speaking or otherwise who would would pay a £20 per month premium as suggested above.
I do think there is a future for micro local news, business, learning and training channels, chat/celebrity and also for ‘investigative TV journalism’ and political shows (eg.Dragon’s Eye). S4C is and always has been a bastion and champion of the Language (of Heaven) and this, in my view, is justification enough to keep it going. £100 million is a small price to pay to maintain our National identity but is S4C still the correct vehicle for accomplishing this?
Mr Powell also makes a very good point that S4C is a superb training ground for talented media professionals (like Mr Powell) as well as an essential source of income for local independent production companies. However, circumstances (and audiences) have changed/moved on and S4C will have to adapt. More effort and focus should go into New Media, and Internet on the lines of Golwg (although the £600K given to them by WAG as a sop for the demise of Y Byd still makes me grind my teeth with annoyance).
“Welsh-language channel that’s actually doing a far better job at representing our communities.”
What are you basing this statement on? One of the problems seems to be that for most people in Wales (see viewing figures) S4C is irrelevant.
We should be more realistic and ask the question. How do we make sure that we have some Welsh language programming out their? We have to admit that very few people will watch it, the pool of viewers is small and often people have better things to do.
The answer is obviously some sort of subsidy as it will not pay for itself. So returning to an S4C with more profitable English programmes as well as Welsh would not be a bad idea.
I will just add that the author’s assertion that S4C is being bullied is part of the problem. It is not bullying to print the viewing figures; it is in fact healthy as it brings some much needed realism to the debate.
£100m for 2254 jobs. That’s more than £44,000 for each job. Is that good value?
S4C was set up to commission terrestrial tv. The companies they support have really only one aim – and that is to make good -old fashioned telly. There was nothing wrong with that in the 80′s. There is still clearly quite a demand for telly – as SKY’s profits would indicate.
In 2010 we have a Con-Dem government who want to use TV licence fee to pay for consumer broadband roll-out across the UK. We have councils like IACC with an ambition to have high-band wifi available in every village. As cities already have good access to broadband it will be rural areas that benefit most.
Although I am blessed with Cob Records a bus ride from where I live (and still use them when I can) I can now get music (no matter how esoteric) as I want and when I want. I am not blessed with a good bookshop that matches my print needs however if I can get the words I need in minutes. As bandwidth improves it will be no different for the moving image.
A friend, who ran a major facilities house in Wales, said to me : the local Welsh medium TV businesses want to make TV programmes and it is of little concern to them how they are distributed – that, he said, is somebody else’s problem. He might have added “as long as S4C are willing to pay them”.
I think that it is not somebody else’s problem. If you are a “creative” in the twenty-first century -as in any other time- you have to worry about how to win an audience and what revenue streams are available to you.
This doesn’t mean that there shouldn’t be tax payer subvention for Welsh language media but it is time to break out of a cosy top down, centralised structure and embrace the decentralised hive mind.
What does worry me is that the WAG support for the start-up companies that may create the new media opportunities and build the new models of production and distribution has been removed this very month. It is not that SIF funding didn’t need re-thinking – but the current plan is a disaster for SME’s- especially those who might be the new media celtic dragons.
It’s time for S4C to become bilingual with Anglo-Welsh content occupying the role Channel 4 used to play.
“£100m for 2254 jobs. That’s more than £44,000 for each job. Is that good value?”
It works out cheaper per job than other UK Government spending projects in Wales such as the proposed St. Athan military college, and arguably contributes more to society.
Digital tv technology allows for broadcasts with multiple languages, so why not transmit a dubbed english. This would allow it to promote Welsh culture and history to non-Welsh speakers, I always thought it a shame that S4C produces some great historical and cultural programmes that are ignored because some find the Welsh language element off putting
I am very sceptical about the jobs created, as many of these jobs will be in production companies that have other contracts.
We should be honest not try to hide anything. S4C is very expensive. Look what happened when the viewing figures came out, because they had not been released previously they not only looked bad, it looked like people were hiding things.
Some of the defences given at the time were also embarrassing. S4C would be allot better off it concentrated on making a few high quality programmes and children’s TV. I say this because much of the output at the moment is frankly rubbish.
“4 – Broadcast more Rugby. The top 5 most popular shows on S4C last year were :
• 1 Jan – New Years day Rugby – Ospreys vs Cardiff Blues (427,000 viewers)
• 6 June – USA v Wales Test match (301,000)
• Kathryn Jenkins concert (237,000)
• 24 Nov – Blues vs Australia (212,000)
• 6 Nov – Gwent Dragons v Sale (183,000)”
S4C already provide saturation coverage of the Magners League & in doing so, with some help from BBC Wales are actually doing significant damage to professional rugby in Wales; why should anyone pay for tickets when just about every Welsh home game is on free to air telly? The damage isn’t just to the clubs’ revenue, it’s about associating with a team and building a long term supporter base
Wow, I have to say how refreshing it is reading the comments in response to this article- they were far more balanced, sensible and constructive than I feared and than is often the case here (unfortunately). I agree with much of what has been said, S4C makes a really important contribution to the creative industries in Wales, and that is something we don’t want to lose. I agree with the commentors who suggest seizing this opportunity to think radically about the future of S4C, particularly whether the current commissioning model delivers good quality programmes and whether there are alternative (more efficient/ effective) ways of supporting and enabling the creative industry.
I also agree with James:
With the demise of ITV Wales, we need another home for English language Welsh content, and S4C is the obvious platform. There are difficult decisions ahead for the broadcaster, but there could be exciting times as well if they are willing to take risks to seem relevant once again.
I would really welcome this. Our civic /political society is still immature in Wales and dominated by too few players, programmes etc. S4C has an important contribution to make. There is no escaping that the decisions will be difficult to make, even painful for many, but they still need to be made, and radical overhaul, rather than cutting around the edges will surely bring better results?
Off the bat I really think that S4C and BBC Wales (which should be given properly devolved status within the BBC) need to work closer together. Crossover programming, understanding scheduling and ultimately having english speaking Welsh programmes (and vice versa on BBC Wales).
The difficulty is that we cannot empirically measure the depth of impact from all the competing factors in S4C’s current loss of viewership. My guess would be that the onset of digital is the biggest single factor, by a fairly healthy amount (as many channels far bigger than S4C have found). The basic numbers would mean that being 1 of 4 channels available to being one of 400 is going to affect viewing figures.
In terms of S4C’s product, it leaves alot to be desired. Too many repeats, some pretty dated looking stuff and I believe a lack of willingness to cater for Welsh learners. That said, I try to watch regularly – Caerdydd was awesome, I watch most of the sport it shows, and the music stuff is normally decent.
The problem is that you have to be pretty comitted to root out the decent stuff and in a world where flicking the remote has become ingrained in our viewing habits, many people just don’t bother and watch ‘World’s wildest chases involving a hot dog part 87′ instead.
Put simply – S4C needs to become the channel of Wales. While I accept there may be a danger that a bi-lingual channel might mean a downgrading of the Welsh language content (what price any bi-lingual channels critics merely focusing their fire on the Welsh language programming?), we can make sure that does not happen.
I believe it’s important to start with some fundamentals. The first, for S4C is that it is there to service and enhance the Welsh language. The provision of Welsh language programming is written into the channel’s PSB remit. So therefore, personally, scrapping S4C for the sakes of cost is off the table (and shame on those who suggest otherwise), while allowing it to provide English language programming is an unimaginative non-starter that negates the whole purpose of a channel. It’s rather like building a car, then pulling two wheels off it and calling it a motorbike.
We live in a world where technology has delivered some incredible media evolution. Come one, people – can we not be a little bit more imaginative in our solutions?
Hi Cerys, I agree with much of what you say. But I disagree with your suggestion that S4C could provide English language content. Of course we really need to improve that content, perhaps by devolving broadcasting or making the BBC a more fedral organization than it is now, so it produces more programmes about Wales and Welsh life. I remember the late 70s when Welsh and English language programmes shared BBC2, and many of the non-Welsh speaking viewers complained about the Welsh language programmes that appeared at peak viewing times, so Welsh language programmes were pushed later and later into the graveyard slot after 10.30 and beyond. That was one of the reasons for establishing S4C, and I’m afraid that would happen again if S4C were to become a ‘bilingual’ station. But I do agree that far more of Wales needs to be seen on BBC Wales and ITV Wales. Hopefully the minister, Jeremy Hunt, will be able to make provision for this, if not, then the Welsh government could perhaps have a role to play.
I tend to agree with the calls for bilingualism (both BBC Wales and S4C). Given that BBC Wales employs high proportions of Welsh speakers (in public facing roles) this seems like a no brainer. Some people might learn Welsh as well, which would facilitate the scrapping of many an agency and programme dedicated to gimping, sorry promoting, the Welsh language. Let’s put the language out there, where the vast majority of Welsh people can see it, hear it, learn it. Or keep it on channel…what channel?
As for questions of value – nothing is good value when fundamental life saving / enabling / enhancing services are being cut elsewhere over the same term. I baulk at the repeated notion the state should seek to target spending so as to create quantities of employment: state investment should catalyse, not life-support the creative (or any other) industries.
S4C, I’m sure will take the hit – but must address valid concerns over viewer numbers and quality in doing so. This will be one of the less painful cuts for the Welsh public to bear (even accounting for job losses).
Other services, in health, education, environment, justice, transport, care, housing etc, will find their viewing numbers grow, as service levels/investment continue to be cut.
“while allowing it to provide English language programming is an unimaginative non-starter that negates the whole purpose of a channel. It’s rather like building a car, then pulling two wheels off it and calling it a motorbike.”
Well not necessarily Duncan. I went to a viewers forum thing held by S4C in Abertillery. And I raised, in Welsh, that despite me enjoying watching the kids TV programmes with my son, there was little opportunity for learners to utilise the fact that they had ‘famous’ (in kids terms) characters. They already said they are moving towards those lines in general – Caerdydd, S4Cs flagship drama, is billed as a ‘Bi-lingual drama’, with some scenes wholly in English.
To me the bi-lingual part of a new remit (just because it has a current remit, does not mean it has to stay forever), can be driven forward under the idea of promoting learning of our language, outside of class rooms.
I understand the concerns at that, they are noted and understood; but as someone who wants far more to be done for the language to be promoted outside of dry, arid lessons, I think it could be an opportunity.
You raise a good point, Marcus. Engaging programming with both languages would indeed be a benefit (not least to a learner like myself), and points a way forward. What I object to is English-only programming, simply because it won’t keep people on the channel. How many times do we switch over every night? And why?
Martin Owen posed the profound question, “Euryn Ogwen – are you still there?” I need to become engaged in this discussion if only to confirm this to myself. I blog, therefore I am!
My answer to Martin’s final question is that it is not a choice. We all need to be friends of both. And we need even more friends and choices in the future.
We need an independent Welsh-based statutory authority to oversee public investment in Welsh language media during this period of change. We’ve got that – it’s called S4C. We need a substantial investment in a new and sustainable content industry for digital content that’s delivered on different platforms – particularly in the Welsh language. S4C needs to make that investment. Despite the impact of some excellent YouTube videos from Wales, it doesn’t yet represent a vibrant industry. Some people think that, in the digital world, the answer to everything is either 0 or 1. As you know, the answers are even more complex than they were in the analogue world, and there are many right answers to every digital question.
Those who believe that it’s possible to recreate the cosy past of big audiences and extravagant lifestyles of the TV professionals have no contribution to make to the current debate. Neither do those who quote meaningless audience figures that they don’t understand. We are where we are and this debate goes to the heart of public service media in a small nation and in particular the sustainability of the indigenous language. Don’t even think that there is one simple answer.
I can assure Martin that there is, and has been for some years, an enormous amount of hard thinking in the production sector about the way forward. The consolidation of companies that took place was one of the elements in preparing for this rapidly changing world.
There won’t be a simple fix and a potential cut to S4C’s budget is a challenge that will have to be faced imaginatively. And it is more of a threat than an opportunity particularly if, in true Welsh tradition, individuals and groups bring their chips and axes to the party.
I agree with Rhodri. S4C is the only Cymraeg channel in the world. You want more “Welsh” content in the English language..? I thought that is what ITV WALES and BBC WALES were for?? no?
(point is, resources are scarce enough for English lang “Welsh” progs on English lang “Welsh” telly. You introduce that burden into a severly cutback S4C and something is going to give – either the Welsh lang programming, or the whole channel.)
oh, and:
“Following a meeting of the S4C Authority, Iona Jones, the Channel’s Chief Executive has left S4C. The Authority’s Members would like to thank Iona Jones for her service to S4C.
There will be no further comment.”
http://www.s4c.co.uk/e_press_level2.shtml?id=353
run, walked or pushed?
there is no earthly reason why s4c cant provide television programming through the medium of english. Only last year there was an excellent proposal from s4c to provide an all wales tv news service in english…prompted by the serious crisis affecting the ITV franchise in wales…unfortunately..and for some bizarre reason which has never been adequately explained…..the s4c option for a news service in english was kicked out by the assembly committee dealing with the issue,,,,instead we had the pointless ‘ulster tv saga’…which the new british govt has now abandoned anyway!
when s4c broadcast a mix of welsh and english tv programmes there’s no questions its viewing figures…and viewing figures are all that matter to potential advertisers…..were much healthier than they are now! Also many non welsh speakes would also tune in to watch popular welsh language shows like pobl y cwm. But theres no question that since the digital changeover..and s4c moving over to exclusively welsh content …….this does not seem to be hapening anymore…indeed its viewing figures for some of its programmes have been appalling. There clearly needs to be a lot of thinking done at s4c as the channel would seem to be unsustainable in the long term in its current form
I will probably get shot for this, however I am all for Welsh language shows to be broadcast on BBC Wales and ITV (or whatever its called these days).
I think its time to get Welsh out of the Ghetto. If you can broadcast English language shows on S4C then why not Welsh on BBC and ITV?
I always like Pobl Y Cwm. Was Rachel Thomas on it at one time (Proud Valley with Paul Robeson)?
Canton Labour Cllr, Cerys Furlong: “With the demise of ITV Wales, we need another home for English language Welsh content, and S4C is the obvious platform.”
Good to see the Canton Labour Party supporting the Welsh language as ever!
gah
S4C is a Welsh LANGUAGE channel, not a Welsh channel (and yes, there is a difference). Sorry, that was the whole point. The problem comes when you confuse the two.
If a character goes to England, then let the dialogue be in English (for the sake of realism). No Problem. If you have a “Learn Welsh” show, then that can, and has to be, bilingual (obviously). Other than that…
What S4C needs is a decent management team. It needs a root-to-branch kick up the arse. Wales has soooo many talented film-makers, producers, actors, media-types – get them all involved. S4C could be a channel you rush home to watch, but at the moment… sheep-shearing championship? I know farming is important in Wales, but like… where is the Welsh “Lost”? The Welsh “24″? The Welsh “House”? The Welsh “West Wing”? How hard can it be? You only need a good script and some good actors, they don’t need to cost billions. It just needs vision.
Gwion Owen said “In the annual report we saw that 26 out of the 30 most popular programmes were sports or events. In my view that can only cast questions on the creative strategies the channel was following.” and he’s right.
Come on, aren’t we a nation of poets, of storytellers, of musicians? Why can’t we do it? Are we so beaten that we think we don’t deserve a world-class BBC-beating channel?
“where is the Welsh “Lost”? The Welsh “24?? The Welsh “House”? The Welsh “West Wing”?”
Al,
But those things cost money, you are talking about HBO style money. I have no problem with your argument, we are all putting forward ideas, but to me at the moment S4C could produce The Wire and not many people would care, even the Welsh speaking community.
Thank you Euryn for assuring us that S4C are doing hard thinking about the impact of new media. I am happy to accept the solution isn’t a simple Welsh language selection on YouTube yet. There is still a demand for good TV. However online/on demand and box-set modes of consumption instead of being the secondary mode will increasingly be “the” mode. The provision of news and current affairs (as this site demonstrates) are equally amenable to other forms of delivery.
I agree with those correspondents that it the question is about Welsh language media. S4C is the de-facto vehicle for this and that is its specific defined function. Any role outwith the production of material in Welsh is a different issue. The production of local English language media should be somebody else’s problem.
I still maintain the issue is the generation of Welsh language content, and not a TV channel. The production and distribution base needs diversification and “different thinking”. However the recent history of the Welsh broadcast production industry has been contraction, consolidation and remained within broadcast state of mind..
meh, it’s that kind of thinking that keeps the channel filled with Sheep-shearing championships :/
I submit the proposition that you can make world-class drama with 10 actors, a few HD cameras and a sh*t-hot script. We already have the studios, fx departments, makeup depts etc etc – we make Dr Who, Casualty etc for gods sake. Why can we make shows for “the UK” but not ourselves? Where is the drive and vision?
Damn, can I apply for the S4C Chief Exec job? Give me two years and I’ll have the country rushing home to watch it. With subtitles, even
We make Dr Who? Or is it just a lot of people from London have moved to Wales to make Dr Who?
To add to some of Marcus’ and Duncans earlier points,
How about something along the lines of two bi-lingual dramas (say for this example “Caerdydd” and “Cardiff”) where one would run on BBC Wales and the other on S4C (both with sub titles available), the spilt could be something like 75/25 in favour of Welsh language characters on the S4C version and vice versa on the BBC one. Both dramas would run in parallel (but on different nights), there would be cross-over stories with some of the characters from “Cardiff” appearing in “Caerdydd” and vice versa but it wouldn’t necessarily be essential to watch both “Caerdydd” and “Cardiff” to follow the general plot lines in either drama even though there would be some cross plots so that your viewing would be enriched if you followed both.
This would have the effect of “Caerdydd” reaching out to a wider audiance (it could be promoted alongside “Cardiff” on the BBC so English language viewers would be aware of it) and introduce some Welsh language characters/diologue to BBC Wales (which could reflect our status as a bilingual nation). It would also avoid bring wholly English Lang. programming to S4C and the English language viewers would hear/experience more of the Welsh language.
Just an idea
Dai
Al,
Afraid I have to disagree. The reason why the US has produced so much quality TV in the past decade is because series producers put together incredibly powerful writers’ table. Writers of the standard of Matthew Weiner, or Aaron Sorkin, are keenly aware of their commercial worth, and it is beyond what S4C could pay.
I think the idea that what the channel needs is a couple of good dramas to pull it out of nosedive slightly misses the point. S4C execs – those that remain – must recognise that times have changed, that it can become a creative hub for the language, a centre of excellence. I agree with your submission, but for every Blair Witch, there must be hundreds – thousands – that miss.
If S4C is serious about development, it needs to be reaching into the Welsh education system, to pass on its expertise, to mentor and shape tomorrow’s film and programme makers, in the same way as the Ajax football academy has shaped hundreds of world class young footballers.
All of this fits strongly with my belief that S4C is much more than simply a TV channel. And if it comes up short, that needs to be sorted.
Dai,
That idea seems a pretty decent stab at it. My point was that it could work both ways – surely showing Caerdydd on BBC2 Wales would be a good thing? Hence my view.
I do however understand and accept the concerns with that though.
@Duncan
“If S4C is serious about development, it needs to be reaching into the Welsh education system, to pass on its expertise, to mentor and shape tomorrow’s film and programme makers, in the same way as the Ajax football academy has shaped hundreds of world class young footballers”
Can’t agree more, with the 14-19 learning pathways all about opening up the provision of courses available I would have thought this would have fitted perfectly in with that ideaology. It would also help the Welsh medium schools offer a more diverse range of courses which is a concern at the moment due to their sparsed nature, especially in the S/SE.
It could also be extended to include the youth services (with Welsh language youth provision lagging well behind that of education) which would be a massive boost to Welsh language youth service provision and open a whole new avenue.
Excellent idea, Dai. Agree wholeheartedly.
I think the events of the past 24 hours illustrate the point made by the young author of this piece perfectly. With Iona Jones’ departure shrouded in mystery and no-one from S4C willing to talk openly, the population is once more in the dark about the goings on at S4C.
Since her departure we have seen hide nor hair of any of the channel’s big names, those who are still on screen or those who have moved onto pastures new, talking about the channels future. There seems to be a distinct lack of a rear guard action here in defence of the channel.
I suppose it’s hardly surprising given the drivel that’s on screen most of the time. Repeats of ‘Jacpot’ and a new series of ‘Fferm Ffactor’ are hardly likely to win over the floating TV conoisseur. Perhaps it’s because they’re ashamed of what S4C has become (and NOT the principle of S4C)that they’re staying as the title suggests ‘mute’.
Whomever takes over now must take a very large red pen with them and clean the place out – remove the jobs for the boys ethos at HQ and start from scratch. It looks to the outside world (and probably not incorrectly) that S4C is a shambles of an organisation.
Credit to the author who points out (rather articulately I might add) that there is more to S4C than silly nationalists banging on the language drum. Yr wyf yn Gymraes balch iawn on rhaid trafod y pethau yma heb flewyn ar dafod.
It saddens me that S4C is in this state and I hope dearly that it will roar once more – but with the current bunch of people in charge I’m not hopeful.
S4C does get it right though. Some of its programming does work very well, Byw yn yr Ardd, Con Passionate, Ar Y Doc gyda Tudur Owen etc. It does try and push the boundaries as well ‘Cwcw’ and perhaps ‘Y Pris’ (the first series which I enjoyed). As for bilingual channel, that would be a bad idea. I don’t think it would work. How would they decide which programmes would get shown etc. locally focused television is hard to do at times, because you have to give a local angle.
BBC Wales tried to revive it with BBC 2W but they gave up mainly because local programmes about Wales is very limiting. S4C has more freedom to do programmes about outside of Wales, ‘Yr Afon’ and ’04 Wal’ springs to mind. (S4C is a bilingual channel of some sorts because it offers english subtitling)
Yeah Degwm, thats the point I was making about it being a Welsh lang channel, not a Welsh channel. They could make programs about Native Americans, the Russian revolution, Chinese tea, whatever – they’re not limited to programs ABOUT Wales, just as long as they are IN Welsh.
Can I ask Euryn Ogwen …if he’s still there …to explain to me exactly how the consolidation of the production companies makes the sector better able to face the future ?
I would just like to hear – once – someone who supports the policy that S4C have followed over the past few years articulate a well reasoned argument in favour of this policy. I have yet to hear one despite the damage that has been done in the sector, and to creativity in Wales by this.
I recntly argued in a piece for the Institute of Welsh Affairs that this policy had created companies that would pose (and I honestly hate to use this term) a ‘systemic’ risk to S4C if they folded as they carry so many long term contracts and would cause mayhem – therefore S4C feel that they are obliged to keep giving them these large contracts. (or did feel obliged under Iona Jones’ leadership)
Rumour has it that the satirical magazine Lol which is due to be published tomorrow carries a revelation about the relationship between S4C and Boomerang – apparently someone has analysed the pattern of Boomerangs financial results with S4C’s announcing of major new tenders.
With the new interim Chief Executive promising to look at how the relationship with the indies worked under Iona Jones’ regime maybe Euryn and his mates better start doing some explaining.
Anyone who hasn’t seen Gwion’s piece on Click on Wales can read it here:
http://www.clickonwales.org/2010/07/probing-the-deafening-silence-around-s4c%E2%80%99s-crisis/
I think certain people in the ‘London’ broadcasting establishment need to forget about the speck of sawdust in S4C’s eye and pay more attention to the plank in your own eye?
Have you seen the expenses for the director of Ofcom Wales published here :-
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/40407/response/104017/attach/6/Doc3.pdf
Enough to make a moat owning Tory backbench knight of the shire blush!
Expenses Rhodri Williams last there years £21 248 a year £28 186 a year and £10 703 this year !
If S4C’s budget is going to be cut – then the BBC MUST step in to the breach.
Surely if we believe that broadcasting is too precious a flower to allow it to be subjected completely to the rigours of the free market (the very reason d’etre for the contiunued existance of the BBC) then the Corporation which even its present DG Mark Thompson described as ‘ wallowing in a jacuzzi of cash’, must commission more programming from the independent production sector in Wales to make up for any loss from the direct grant to S4C.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/feb/08/luke-johnson-bbc
We have all seen Geraint Talfan’s work on the Corporation current level of spending in Wales, so let’s widen this debate to include rectifying those issue.
Clearly market failure exists with regard to making programmes in Welsh, and the time has come for ‘Auntie’ to stump up some ‘dosh’ to help out – in fact it would help politicians better understand her role in the new digital environment.
Please no more anti-Welsh remarks about the jobs going to Welsh speakers only – it only harms the thousands who don’t speak the Language, but who are employed because of it – they will lose out when the cuts come. Only S4C broadcasts in Welsh the other 300 odd on my Sky box are whatever. The anti-Welsh element in this country needs to reflect on the fact that before S4C existed very few were employed in television production sector this side of the Severn Bridge – if the channel is castrated then it’s back to square one.
London will still enjoy its ‘Jacuzzi’ of broadcasting cash and the champagne swilling excesses of its senior members of staff. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/jul/12/bbc-drinks-expenses-freedom-information.
In passing as well, the likes of Radio 3 costs far more per capita to service its ‘privileged’ minority audience, than S4C ever did.
The BBC is pushing out the private sector in far too many places at the moment, where NO MARKET FAILURE EXISTS – a decision to spend some of that money in Wales supporting employment would garner unanimous political support – ask the Murdoch’s – a family with friends in very high Tory places.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/6107233/James-Murdoch-targets-BBC-land-grabbing.html
I am a fan of S4C in general and think it has been and is a huge attribute to Wales as a whole, in whatever language or area, both in terms of culture /identity and economic benefits it has bought. But in recent years it has become rather strerile and seems to have slightly lost touch with the welsh pubic in general. Not sure why but I would hazard a guess that the big programme makers and producers just arent really interested in the people that that they seek to represent and dont mix, deal and interact with these communities in the way they should if they want to create relevant popular entertainment. They have become lazy and conceited in their attitudes. There seems to be very little originality or passion driven programme making now and it seem that they are often just painting by numbers.
The majority of the programmes are in danger of a looking and sounding the same and the same old faces and voices talking down to the audience are given over exposure and just start to annoy rather than entertain. A great deal of the programmes actually look the same in the style and techniques they are filmed and very often seem sterile and empty=it is definately a case of style over substance in a lot of cases. It is very well setting up good looking and stylish shots but utterly counter productive and empty when there is no substance to back it up.It used to be the other way round; a balance needs to be found between the two I believe.
I think S4C needs a compete shake up,it seems that the whole board are grey civil servants,good at admin, forecasts and focus groups but lacking in flair and the creative vision thats needed. Maybe a great deal of the staff and actors /presenters have also become complacent also and EXPECT work from the channel rather than feel lucky when they are offered work at the channel.
After saying this, S4C has a hard job to do of pleasing everyone on one channel and some good stuff does slip out sometimes,the children’s programmes, documentaries and a few other dramas and one offs being good examples. None of the other channels in the uk are doing anything particulary exiting themselves. But S4C needs a shake up and possibly a complete shake up at the top.
I too support S4C, but the events of the last week have left me..mute.
I want to know the true story behind Iona Jones’s departure.
Until S4C starts to show some respect for its viewers & supporters, I’m going to remain mute.
OFCOM -what does it do in Wales? How much does it cost the taxpayer? Abolish it and pass the funding to S4C.
S4C is important to Wales. Let’s support it.
where is Euryn Ogwen? I’ve challenged him to a debate on this matter and he seems to have shirked!
The simple reality is that the manner that S4C has pushed consolidation on this sector during the past five years was anti-competitive, possibly illegal, and has been a monumental failure. Has one of the chief architects of this policy now gone into hiding ?
Friends working at S4C told me say that “She has something of the night about her”.