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	<title>Comments on: No more porkies &#8211; here is the real fiscal deficit</title>
	<atom:link href="http://waleshome.org/2010/07/counting-the-real-cost-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/07/counting-the-real-cost-2/</link>
	<description>Independent analysis from and about Wales</description>
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		<title>By: Cegog</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/07/counting-the-real-cost-2/comment-page-2/#comment-17737</link>
		<dc:creator>Cegog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 23:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=12814#comment-17737</guid>
		<description>UK £159.2BN deficit
Wales £6.3BN deficit

Wales’ population 5% of the UKs
Wales share of the UK’s deficit 3.95%

I pointed these fiures out to Alan, and I still have not seen a decent reply.  Wales is in a bad way....but the UK is much worse!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UK £159.2BN deficit<br />
Wales £6.3BN deficit</p>
<p>Wales’ population 5% of the UKs<br />
Wales share of the UK’s deficit 3.95%</p>
<p>I pointed these fiures out to Alan, and I still have not seen a decent reply.  Wales is in a bad way&#8230;.but the UK is much worse!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jones</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/07/counting-the-real-cost-2/comment-page-2/#comment-17485</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 14:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=12814#comment-17485</guid>
		<description>Marcus,

This is a different poll of quite a large sample of 45,000 conducted for the Open Left project. There is also quite an interesting ebook linked to the project on the Lawrence and Wishart site entitled Labour&#039;s Future, which can be down loaded for free. You can disagree with the contributions but some of them are quite stimulating. I think what the poll shows is the real danger of news items such as yesterday&#039;s that senior health service managers have been given salary protection for 10 years. This sort of story is a PR disaster for anyone trying to defend public services because it gives the impression to many that if the health service can afford such a policy then cuts are necessary and they wouldn&#039;t harm frontline services.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marcus,</p>
<p>This is a different poll of quite a large sample of 45,000 conducted for the Open Left project. There is also quite an interesting ebook linked to the project on the Lawrence and Wishart site entitled Labour&#8217;s Future, which can be down loaded for free. You can disagree with the contributions but some of them are quite stimulating. I think what the poll shows is the real danger of news items such as yesterday&#8217;s that senior health service managers have been given salary protection for 10 years. This sort of story is a PR disaster for anyone trying to defend public services because it gives the impression to many that if the health service can afford such a policy then cuts are necessary and they wouldn&#8217;t harm frontline services.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus Warner</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/07/counting-the-real-cost-2/comment-page-1/#comment-17482</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus Warner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 14:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=12814#comment-17482</guid>
		<description>Jeff,

Do you mean the You Gov polling here?

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/08/where-is-britains-centre-ground/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>Do you mean the You Gov polling here?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/08/where-is-britains-centre-ground/" rel="nofollow">http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/08/where-is-britains-centre-ground/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jones</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/07/counting-the-real-cost-2/comment-page-1/#comment-17477</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 13:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=12814#comment-17477</guid>
		<description>FT has an interesting story of a poll conducted for Demos by YouGov on a number of questions concerning the state. One of the main findings from a poll of 45,000 was that Labour lost the election because it failed to spell out where the cuts would come. Many people just didn&#039;t believe Labour&#039;s message because they were sceptical about the role of the state and believed that state spending had reached or even breached acceptable limits. The full poll will be out in September and should provide a great deal of food for thought for those on the centre left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FT has an interesting story of a poll conducted for Demos by YouGov on a number of questions concerning the state. One of the main findings from a poll of 45,000 was that Labour lost the election because it failed to spell out where the cuts would come. Many people just didn&#8217;t believe Labour&#8217;s message because they were sceptical about the role of the state and believed that state spending had reached or even breached acceptable limits. The full poll will be out in September and should provide a great deal of food for thought for those on the centre left.</p>
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		<title>By: Financier</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/07/counting-the-real-cost-2/comment-page-1/#comment-17474</link>
		<dc:creator>Financier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 13:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=12814#comment-17474</guid>
		<description>Duncan,

&quot;FDI will only continue to come to Wales and remain in Wales if there are attractions other than bags of cash. The ERP places a lot of emphasis on skills building.&quot;

You are so right. 

Wales has to enter the 21st century and accept that it has to provide an environment that is attractive to both non-Welsh investment and to entrepreneurs. It also has to accept that it is in competition globally.

One of the least used skills in marketing by many orgamisations, is not just asking if you provide what you think the client needs but also have you sat in the client&#039;s seat and looked at what is on offer from that viewpoint, in terms of his expectations. This requires a great deal of honesty in this often brutal self-appraisal - a quality not often found in political circles. We have to do this exercise for Wales.

For example a new business will want employees. Yet the UK education standards of school-leavers, let alone those of Wales, are rapidly descending the international league table. We have record numbers of illiterates and innumerates leaving school - something that very rarely happened 60-70 years ago. 

Every employer is prepared to train new employees in the special skills required by that business, but he expects those new employees to have high standard skill sets in the skills that are internationally recognised should be acquired at school. Increasingly that will require one or more foreign languages outside of English and Welsh. The employer also expects a keenness to work and learn - again a diminishing skill. To improve these standards of education does not cost money - only political will.

Also it has to be recognised that this new business based in Wales will most likely have most of its clients outside of Wales, which will require a high quailty of communications - both electronic and physical. This does cost money to make the necessary improvements.

This is just the tip of the iceberg of the analysis required. Then the problem comes of limited finance available and where it should be allocated. But the job has to be done if we are to be honest with ourselves and to provide for present and future generations. 

But does Wales have the ability to abandon partisan politics and form a coalition from the best of all the talents that will only look forward and plan for the future. On current evidence I suspect not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duncan,</p>
<p>&#8220;FDI will only continue to come to Wales and remain in Wales if there are attractions other than bags of cash. The ERP places a lot of emphasis on skills building.&#8221;</p>
<p>You are so right. </p>
<p>Wales has to enter the 21st century and accept that it has to provide an environment that is attractive to both non-Welsh investment and to entrepreneurs. It also has to accept that it is in competition globally.</p>
<p>One of the least used skills in marketing by many orgamisations, is not just asking if you provide what you think the client needs but also have you sat in the client&#8217;s seat and looked at what is on offer from that viewpoint, in terms of his expectations. This requires a great deal of honesty in this often brutal self-appraisal &#8211; a quality not often found in political circles. We have to do this exercise for Wales.</p>
<p>For example a new business will want employees. Yet the UK education standards of school-leavers, let alone those of Wales, are rapidly descending the international league table. We have record numbers of illiterates and innumerates leaving school &#8211; something that very rarely happened 60-70 years ago. </p>
<p>Every employer is prepared to train new employees in the special skills required by that business, but he expects those new employees to have high standard skill sets in the skills that are internationally recognised should be acquired at school. Increasingly that will require one or more foreign languages outside of English and Welsh. The employer also expects a keenness to work and learn &#8211; again a diminishing skill. To improve these standards of education does not cost money &#8211; only political will.</p>
<p>Also it has to be recognised that this new business based in Wales will most likely have most of its clients outside of Wales, which will require a high quailty of communications &#8211; both electronic and physical. This does cost money to make the necessary improvements.</p>
<p>This is just the tip of the iceberg of the analysis required. Then the problem comes of limited finance available and where it should be allocated. But the job has to be done if we are to be honest with ourselves and to provide for present and future generations. </p>
<p>But does Wales have the ability to abandon partisan politics and form a coalition from the best of all the talents that will only look forward and plan for the future. On current evidence I suspect not.</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan Higgitt</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/07/counting-the-real-cost-2/comment-page-1/#comment-17467</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan Higgitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 12:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=12814#comment-17467</guid>
		<description>Diolch, pawb. We have an accord :-)

And, of course, with the ERP, I believe we have the means to make it happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Diolch, pawb. We have an accord <img src='http://waleshome.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>And, of course, with the ERP, I believe we have the means to make it happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus Warner</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/07/counting-the-real-cost-2/comment-page-1/#comment-17465</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus Warner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 12:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=12814#comment-17465</guid>
		<description>&quot;The trouble is…the main two ways of helping businesses is either help business in a miroeconomic way (helping businesses run everyday) or through macroeconomic policies(taxes, interest rates).&quot;

Indeed Cegog. Which was the point I was making about further powers.

Duncan makes an excellent point, the fact is that the &#039;extra powers&#039; argument is a strategic and long term one. Focusing on what we can do today is as vital.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The trouble is…the main two ways of helping businesses is either help business in a miroeconomic way (helping businesses run everyday) or through macroeconomic policies(taxes, interest rates).&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed Cegog. Which was the point I was making about further powers.</p>
<p>Duncan makes an excellent point, the fact is that the &#8216;extra powers&#8217; argument is a strategic and long term one. Focusing on what we can do today is as vital.</p>
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		<title>By: Cegog</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/07/counting-the-real-cost-2/comment-page-1/#comment-17452</link>
		<dc:creator>Cegog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 11:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=12814#comment-17452</guid>
		<description>This is probably one of the most important points that could be made following the post.  I asked a few questions to Alan, which he kindly answered...apart from one.

I asked what was the situation of Wales&#039; deficit compared with other countries. I thought that since Alan was highlighting the dire situation in Wales. It would be an idea to see how other countries stood.

Alan didn&#039;t answer the question to I just looked at the situation of the UK.  

According to the ONS: &quot;In the calendar year 2009 the UK recorded a general government deficit of £159.2 billion, which was equivalent to 11.4 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP).&quot;

UK £159.2BN deficit
Wales £6.3BN deficit

Wales&#039; population 5% of the UKs
Wales share of the UK&#039;s deficit 3.95%

The point is this, Wales&#039; situation is dire, but the UK as a whole is a shed load worse. The UK is bankrupt. Lets get off this sinking ship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is probably one of the most important points that could be made following the post.  I asked a few questions to Alan, which he kindly answered&#8230;apart from one.</p>
<p>I asked what was the situation of Wales&#8217; deficit compared with other countries. I thought that since Alan was highlighting the dire situation in Wales. It would be an idea to see how other countries stood.</p>
<p>Alan didn&#8217;t answer the question to I just looked at the situation of the UK.  </p>
<p>According to the ONS: &#8220;In the calendar year 2009 the UK recorded a general government deficit of £159.2 billion, which was equivalent to 11.4 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP).&#8221;</p>
<p>UK £159.2BN deficit<br />
Wales £6.3BN deficit</p>
<p>Wales&#8217; population 5% of the UKs<br />
Wales share of the UK&#8217;s deficit 3.95%</p>
<p>The point is this, Wales&#8217; situation is dire, but the UK as a whole is a shed load worse. The UK is bankrupt. Lets get off this sinking ship.</p>
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		<title>By: Duncan Higgitt</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/07/counting-the-real-cost-2/comment-page-1/#comment-17450</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan Higgitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 11:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=12814#comment-17450</guid>
		<description>&quot;It would be much better for the economy in Wales if macroeconomic policies weren’t set based on the needs of London.&quot;

Agreed, Cegog. However, I do think that there is this middle ground, controlling the flow of funding in a meaningful way so that it finds a happy compromise between the needs of business and the needs of government. This is an important factor.

I don&#039;t think it betrays a confidence to say I have been in correspondence this morning with the wife of a Linamar worker. While my next point could well be: &quot;It&#039;s all very well for us to sit around pontificating...&quot; you might be surprised to hear that her major concern (after how her family will pay the bills) was what the Welsh Government is prepared to do to stop overseas blue chip businesses dancing in and out of Wales according to the terms of the grant they receive.

I can only take my funding argument so far here. Other things need to happen. As well as building indigenous cornerstone businesses, FDI will only continue to come to Wales and remain in Wales if there are attractions other than bags of cash. The ERP places a lot of emphasis on skills building.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It would be much better for the economy in Wales if macroeconomic policies weren’t set based on the needs of London.&#8221;</p>
<p>Agreed, Cegog. However, I do think that there is this middle ground, controlling the flow of funding in a meaningful way so that it finds a happy compromise between the needs of business and the needs of government. This is an important factor.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it betrays a confidence to say I have been in correspondence this morning with the wife of a Linamar worker. While my next point could well be: &#8220;It&#8217;s all very well for us to sit around pontificating&#8230;&#8221; you might be surprised to hear that her major concern (after how her family will pay the bills) was what the Welsh Government is prepared to do to stop overseas blue chip businesses dancing in and out of Wales according to the terms of the grant they receive.</p>
<p>I can only take my funding argument so far here. Other things need to happen. As well as building indigenous cornerstone businesses, FDI will only continue to come to Wales and remain in Wales if there are attractions other than bags of cash. The ERP places a lot of emphasis on skills building.</p>
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		<title>By: Cegog</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/07/counting-the-real-cost-2/comment-page-1/#comment-17442</link>
		<dc:creator>Cegog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 10:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=12814#comment-17442</guid>
		<description>Duncan, I agree.  The trouble is...the main two ways of helping businesses is either help business in a miroeconomic way (helping businesses run everyday) or through macroeconomic policies(taxes, interest rates).  

The ERP is in danger of falling between two stalls as the Assembly does not have macroeconomic power to change the economy here, and it is moving away from microeconomic solutions.  

What we need is macroeconomic powers either to be set at a European level to ensure a level playing field through Europe, or for it to be devolved to the Assembly. Either way, it would be much better for the economy in Wales if macroeconomic policies weren&#039;t set based on the needs of London.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duncan, I agree.  The trouble is&#8230;the main two ways of helping businesses is either help business in a miroeconomic way (helping businesses run everyday) or through macroeconomic policies(taxes, interest rates).  </p>
<p>The ERP is in danger of falling between two stalls as the Assembly does not have macroeconomic power to change the economy here, and it is moving away from microeconomic solutions.  </p>
<p>What we need is macroeconomic powers either to be set at a European level to ensure a level playing field through Europe, or for it to be devolved to the Assembly. Either way, it would be much better for the economy in Wales if macroeconomic policies weren&#8217;t set based on the needs of London.</p>
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