A week in the life
Bubble — By Veronica German AM on July 9, 2010 11:00 am
Good friends reunited at the Assembly
Thursday 1st July – The Oath
Well today is the day. By this evening I will be the Welsh Liberal Democrat AM for South Wales East. I am fortunate to be taking the Oath in the Siambr this afternoon.
I first stood for election to the National Assembly in the first elections in 1999 as number 2 on the South Wales East list. It’s a strange place to be – AM in waiting – especially when the person you would replace is someone you know quite well… But if you wait long enough, it seems your turn comes round.
But seriously, it really is an honour and a privilege to be representing people from South Wales East, from Merthyr across to Monmouth. It’s an exciting time to be in the National Assembly with the prospect of proper law making powers with a successful ‘Yes’ referendum. Meanwhile I’ve got a job to do as Health, Local Government and Equalities spokesperson and I can’t wait to get going.
Friday 2nd – more induction
A big thanks to Business Support for arranging a series of meetings for my induction days, the first one last Friday and again today. Everyone has been really helpful and very welcoming.
Today my staff met each other for the first time since their appointments. They seemed to get on well and it’s good to be surrounded by such a keen team brimming with ideas. This is going to be fun.
Then on to my first ‘official’ meeting was with officers from Newport City Council regarding the Flying Start scheme. The Assembly government wants to cut the number of families helped by the scheme because the council aren’t spending enough money. Yes: not spending enough and yet appear to be delivering all aspects of the scheme. On drilling down it appears that the main reason that Newport can deliver this for less money is the low central and evaluation costs compared to other councils. Instead of being dogmatic about the theoretical costings, perhaps the Education Minister and his officials could see the Newport scheme as an example of best practice.
3rd July – If it’s Saturday it must be Maindee Festival
What a fantastic event! A big thank you to friends and workers at the Community House in Eton Road for hosting a reception and a good view of the parade. You can see some of the parade in this video.
This festival has grown over the years and brings together people of all ages and cultures to really have fun and celebrate diversity in this community.
Well done to the Environment Agency who are making a really big effort to reach out to communities with their Welly Boot tour talking about flood risk and how everyone in risk areas can help prepare and be aware of the dangers. They had a huge inflatable there for the kids and which gave the EA staff a ready made audience of parents in the queue to talk to about the flooding issues. Very innovative.
4th July – Monday is constituency day
Now to reorganise the office and decide how we will work. We decide on a plan of action and leave my office manager and ‘right hand woman’, Jacqui, with a raft of meetings to organise and places to visit. Is she still glad she took the job?
5th July – Tuesday is my first day in the Siambr
First group meeting and rather disconcertingly we had a presentation about dissolution. No sooner have I arrived and we’re talking about finishing.
Today I made by debut in the Siambr of the Senedd. I was given the opportunity to say a few words at the beginning of the session
The Presiding Officer: Order in the Assembly. It is my pleasure and privilege to welcome a new Member this afternoon, namely, Veronica German, the Liberal Democrat Member for the south-east.
It is a delight to have you here, Veronica. No sooner do we lose one German to another house than we gain another.
Veronica German: Thank you, Presiding Officer. Some of you may be aware that I first stood for election to the National Assembly for Wales in 1999, so it just shows that patience prevails if you keep on, and you eventually get rewarded. However, I must admit that I have to keep pinching myself every morning to remind myself that this has actually happened. Being number two on the list sometimes makes you think strange thoughts that you should not think. However, we have managed to make it to here, so we are all right.
Being here is an honour and a privilege, and I do not take this role on lightly. There is an important job to do, here in the Assembly and for my constituents in the South Wales East region, which I look forward to doing. I also look forward to speaking on health and local government, and I look forward to speaking to the relevant Ministers on these subjects. It is an exiting time to be here, given that the referendum will be held in the near future. I shall be working with many people here to ensure a ‘yes’ vote in the referendum in Wales, so that we get the type of Assembly that we deserve for the people of Wales. Thank you for your kind thoughts and wishes, and I look forward to working with you all in the future.
I received many warm words of congratulations from members of all political parties. This was much appreciated.
Onto my first question to the First Minister, asking what his government are doing to ensure that people over the age of 50 keep mentally active as well as physically active.
Then a learning exercise. Listening to debates on the economy followed by one on the government’s food strategy. Debates and questions seem very different from inside the chamber than watching from outside. There is some sort of ’whispering gallery’ effect which means you pick up on things being said around the chamber. Lesson No.1 – speak very quietly in private conversations!
Plenary over and it’s time to got to City Hall for the BVA (British Veterinary Association) annual dinner. Good conversation and good food. Very sensibly all the speeches were done before the food. Biggest topic of conversation was the threat of TB and the eradication programme as well as the threat of exotic diseases and puppy farming.
Wednesday 6th – Back in the Bay
A visit to the Alzheimer’s Society Tea Day for Dementia Awareness week to meet service users and carers from the Gwent area. What a humbling experience listening to how people cope looking after loved ones. As they say it is a ‘living bereavement’ and this is an issue that I feel very strongly about. I am glad that dementia is getting some good publicity and with this hopefully funding will follow for the much needed research. I look forward to visiting the craft group in Pontllanfraith – what a determined bunch, it was a privilege to meet them.
Back to Ty Hwyel and it’s my first AM/PM. I actually enjoyed it, thanks to Carl for his relaxed approach. How successful it was has to be judged by others. Interested to see the Speaker in the House of Commons cutting the Prime Minister down: it will be interesting to see if he manages to implement his proposed changes at PMQs.
Then it’s back to the Chamber and debates on the rural economy and rural banking.
After a presentation about the plans for St Athan, it’s home at last. I’m not sure the dog recognises me anymore.
Thursday 6th – Committees…
It’s Thursday again and after more induction with clerks it’s my first Committee meeting of the Health, Well Being and Local Government Committee. A bit like buses – you wait for a Minister and then three come at once. Carl Sargeant, the Local Government Minister, wasn’t giving much away about the Local Government Measure he’s announcing next week. But there were strong hints about changes to scrutiny.
Then the First Minister was responding to the implementation of Prof Pennington’s report on the e coli outbreak. Tensions were apparent when he was questioned about why next week’s meeting with the Food Standards Agency was his first since becoming First Minister. There seems to be some confusion as to which Minister has overall responsibility for environmental health. This has to be sorted out.
Finally it was the turn of the Health Minister, Edwina Hart, talking about her intention to bring forward legislation for presumed consent. I am pleased that she is taking this initiative and that she is not waiting for the result of the referendum to see if an LCO is necessary.
Well that’s it – a week later. Will I go back next week? On balance – yes. Actually – can’t wait!
Tags: Assembly, Veronica German AM, Welsh Liberal Democrats
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40 Comments
“But seriously, it really is an honour and a privilege to be representing people from South Wales East, from Merthyr across to Monmouth. It’s an exciting time to be in the National Assembly with the prospect of proper law making powers with a successful ‘Yes’ referendum. Meanwhile I’ve got a job to do as Health, Local Government and Equalities spokesperson and I can’t wait to get going.”
It is an honour indeed, and a job that takes full-time dedication if it is to be done properly. So, bearing that in mind, and considering the need to serve her constituents right across the region, will Veronica do the decent thing and step down as Councillor for Llanyrafon North?
Bang on Anthony. I have raised this on my blog lots, and the Wales on Sunday even lifted the story!
What a daft attempt at generating a controversy. Perhaps either of you would like to tell me why it’s OK for someone to be a councillor and hold down a full-time job in just about any other walk of life apart from being an AM?
Glad to see a cause that unites us Marcus! Any response from the LibDems though?!?
Because, firstly, being an AM isn’t like a normal job. Plus there’s the issue of conflict of interest between the two roles, or at least conflicting pressures on a representative. I’ve never liked dual representation anyway – why should one person hoard roles when there’s plenty of others ready and willing.
Adam, your talking rubbish. It’s wrong for a person to claim pay and allowance from us, taxpayers. How on earth can an AM do her job while being a councillor for an area? The conflict of interest must rule this out. What happens if a planning application comes to her desk as a councillor, but the final say would come from the Assembly, how can she be impartial? But it’s no surprise that you are defending the ruling elite in Cardiff, Adam, it is in your own interest that the Assembly has full lawmaking powers, after all, you are paid-up member of the Crachach. She should do the decent thing an resign being a councillor or as an AM.
“After all, you are paid-up member of the Crachach.”
Brilliant. Who says Friday afternoon comedy is dead?
How does a dual mandates AM/councillor deal with the conflict of interest over a planning application?
Hmmm, tricky one. You’ve trapped me in your forensic web of words there.
Oh no, hold on – I’ve a radical suggestion: How about s/he recuses him or herself from one or both of the votes? We could even invent a system so that such representatives are obliged to declare an external interest in such matters.
No, hold on again – we’ve had that system in local government for decades.
As for the idea that we shouldn’t have dual mandates as there are lots of people queuing up to be representatives, how about another radical idea: those people have a go at defeating the person in a, you know, election? You never know, we might even conclude that we can leave it to the electorate to decide if they think it is proper for someone to be both an AM and a councillor.
Is Peter Black still a councillor?
Oh come on, rise above a bit, will you? For goodness sake
Personally I was not taking a crack at Peter Black, just curious why poor old Veronica was targeted for “special treatment”?
I agree with Adam’s view that ultimately its between her/him and the electorate.
I laughed so much at Adam being called crachach that I almost forgot what the disagreement is about. Calm down people, we can disagree without the name-calling.
Everyone forgotten the real issue. Lady German was elected by no one. She might have been selected by Liberal Democrats to be second on their list in 2008 but that’s a different matter. Although it would be interesting to know how many Liberal Democrats voted for her to be second. If the Liberal Democrats had managed to capture Newport East in 2008 neither her nor the Baron would even be an AM. What ever the merits of the additional member system ( and I can’t think of any) it isn’t democracy as we know it. Ireland with a STV system for electing TDs has also managed to develop a method ensuring that by elections take place when a TD resigns or dies. In Wales on the closed regional list we have a system which even Lord Newcastle who ensured that the great Liberal Gladstone was elected as a Tory for his pocket borough of Newark would have admired. I wonder what the Chartists of Newport would have thought of all this?
“What a daft attempt at generating a controversy. Perhaps either of you would like to tell me why it’s OK for someone to be a councillor and hold down a full-time job in just about any other walk of life apart from being an AM?”
Happily will.
As I and I assume Anthony would know, the Labour led Torfaen council voted to move all council business within daytime hours (10am mostly). One view is that (although this view is not shared by the Plaid Councillors in Torfaen), was that this was done to exclude some of the opposition councillors. Given nearly all the Labour councillors were older citizens without other jobs. However, the official explanation (which is plausible I admit) is that the 5pm meetings were going well into the night due to rather trivial delays from opposition councillors.
This would make the usual AM/Councillor split difficult. Ms German may be talented, but unless she can be in two places at once, she will be neglecting one duty over another. She has yet to confirm whether she will be accepting both of the wages on offer.
My personal view is that the change to 10am meetings is a retrograde one. To declare an interest, I am a candidate, and face a pretty tough choice given it will take a pretty understanding employer to allow me to make 10am meetings in Torfaen. Now I accept the terms, but Torfaen not holding evening meetings does potentially put others standing off, particularly if they have a career to consider.
Marcus
A valiant effort. Alas, it does not answer my question. If Torfaen’s meetings are during working hours shouldn’t we be insisting that no member of the authority should have a full-time job (that is to say, one that observes normal office hours)? After all, they can’t be in two places at once either.
Crumbs leaves the lady alone. She seems very positive and appreciative about her new status.
It does’nt matter about the local councillor thing as they are usually evening a fortnight sort of things.
Anybody know when the next elections for county councillors are?
“A valiant effort. Alas, it does not answer my question. If Torfaen’s meetings are during working hours shouldn’t we be insisting that no member of the authority should have a full-time job (that is to say, one that observes normal office hours)? After all, they can’t be in two places at once either.”
Well, critics of the Labour regime have indicated that was the intended consequences of that vote. I repeat, none of the Labour councillors (or very few) had roles outside of councillor. Given this was done after 2008 (ie after people have been elected, with an historic high for non-Labour councillors), some Councillors have simply not been able to attend as much as they should.
However, under those circumstances (which well could be my own if I win), then a councillor would have to have an arrangement with their employer. The point with Mrs German is that we the people are her employer in both her roles – one will be short changed at any given time. She has never even asked her electorate in Llanyravon, or indeed confirmed whether she will be taking the brass for both.
So whereas a person working a non-political job, could plausibly say to their electorate (I attend as much as I can, but due to work committments it won’t be all the time), someone hogging two political roles (one pretty well renumerated and likely to include 2011-2015) seems to me to have less of a moral case.
I repeat this position for any party by the way, including my own.
Nope, still not clear.
Your argument, as I understand it, is that VG should not be a Councillor because her job as an AM prevents her from attending Torfaen CBC meetings. Your proposed solution is that she stands down from the Council.
Yet when it comes to other people who similarly have jobs that prevent them from attending council meetings, your solution is that they should be permitted to carry on as best they can until such a time when the schedule of meetings is moved.
Why is it different for VG than for other councillors?
Well, this is an interesting debate. I’m finding myself agreeing with Jeff Jones and Marcus Warner; and disagreeing with Adam Higgitt.
Jeff is right to highlight the democratic deficit represented by our regional list system; and Marcus is right that (citing Torfaen as an example) much councillors’ business is conducted in the normal working day.
So when Adam demands ” Perhaps … you would like to tell me why it’s OK for someone to be a councillor and hold down a full-time job in just about any other walk of life apart from being an AM?” – the reality, for many local authorities, is that few citizens with a regular full-time job in the private sector could actually combine paid employment and the full discharge of a councillor’s responsibilities. That’s why, as Marcus implies (despite earlier efforts to pay off older councillors), there’s a disproportionate representation of retired people (mostly men) amongst the present cohort of Welsh councillors.
Adam might argue that, as an AM, Lady German doesn’t have to worry about the constraints on regular private sector-employed potential council candidates, and so can carry on as a councillor regardless. But that – despite his protestations to the contrary – would be to ignore the widely-endorsed principle that our representatives shouldn’t occupy more than one distinct elected role (councillor/AM/MP) simultaneously.
A good councillor will devote many hours of their own time every week on behalf of their ward’s residents. A good AM will be working full-time – and then some – on their constituents’ behalf. I really can’t see how Adam can argue that the two roles can be effectively undertaken simultaneously.
And Adam’s query – ” If Torfaen’s meetings are during working hours shouldn’t we be insisting that no member of the authority should have a full-time job?” – may have been tongue-in-cheek. But it does raise an important issue for our local democracy. What can we do to make our councils more representative? We should be making it easier for people in ALL walks of Welsh life – part-time/full-time/unemployed/learning/retired workers – to have the opportunity to put themselves forward for elected office.
“A good councillor will devote many hours of their own time every week on behalf of their ward’s residents. A good AM will be working full-time – and then some – on their constituents’ behalf. I really can’t see how Adam can argue that the two roles can be effectively undertaken simultaneously.”
Quite simply by doing what dozens of councillors do up and down the UK each week: fit their duties as a councillor around their work and other commitments.
Gez, you see that the reality of the situation is that this is not possible if the job of a councillor is to be done right. I beg to differ, as I know a number of councillors who manage precisely this. They have a right to time off work for public duties, but also have to take up some of their own time. They manage.
If we are saying that this is unsatisfactory, and that we want to move councillors onto a genuinely full-time footing like MPs and AMs, then that is another matter, and in some ways another debate.
Either way, what is sauce for the normal full-time employee goose is also sauce for the Veronica German Gander. I’ve yet to hear a reason (other than that we need to let others have a go, and that there is a principle that is widely-endorsed against dual-mandating) to treat VG differently from any other full-time employee.
(Other than the fact that some people quite fancy making some party political mischief, of course.)
Senn asked “Anybody know when the next elections for county councillors are?”. May 2012 – nearly two years away. Lady German should resign her councillor role now, and allow the people living in the ward she won’t now be able to represent properly to have full representation for the next two years.
OK: Adam counters my earlier doubt around how he can sustain the argument that the two roles of councillor and AM can be effectively undertaken simultaneously by saying: “Quite simply by doing what dozens of councillors do up and down the UK each week: fit their duties as a councillor around their work and other commitments”. This might have been more compelling if he’d claimed that “thousands” of councillors do this every week. But he knows that couldn’t be supported by the facts. That only “dozens” of councillors up and down the UK can combine both councillor duties and full-time work surely shows that they’re the exception, rather than the rule. Do we really WANT our AMs (even regional list AMs) to be torn between the two representative roles?
Adam may know “a number of councillors who manage precisely this”. I know too few councillors below the age of 60. I know none aged under 60 working full-time in the private sector. Just because Adam knows a few councillors who cope in adverse circumstances doesn’t mean we should permit AMs or MPs to continue in councillor roles. My argument wasn’t that “we need to let others have a go … [or only] that there is a principle that is widely-endorsed against dual-mandating”. It was that both ward and constituency voters will inevitably be short-changed if their AM or MP insists on retaining their councillor position. Adam still hasn’t refuted this point and, despite his valiant efforts above, I don’t think he can.
Hi Gez
You read a lot into my words. My point was merely that the practice of holding down a full-time job and being a councillor is not unusual. It may well be statistically abnormal – I honestly wouldn’t know (though I suspect, for example, that the demographic profile of Wales’s 1,200 odd councillors is somewhat different the those of London’s). VG is not therefore some kind of weird exception. In fact, she’s not even the only AM to be a councillor. Peter Black has managed it for 11 years and I’m not sure that anyone has suggested his performance as an AM has fallen short. You ask “Do we really WANT our AMs (even regional list AMs) to be torn between the two representative roles?” As I stated earlier, I take the old-fashioned view that this is for the electorate to decide. Peter Black’s local authority constituents have had two separate occasions to end this dual-mandating and have chosen not to. I’m interested to know what we imagine we know better than them who should represent them?
But all of this is in a sense secondary to my main point. Your argument, and that of both Marcus and Anthony is that it is too much to hold down the job of an AM and be a councillor. But this is surely the same when seeking to combine any full-time job and the role of councillor? I still don’t understand why we are singling VG out as short-changing her constituents, but still defending the rights of other working councillors. We either have to apply the rule for both or neither.
Adam,
Because Torfaen, which is not the same throughout other councils, hold their meetings during the day. Prior to 2008, meetings etc were held at 5pm – making it far easier to attend.
So why is VG in a different category to any other Torfaen councillor with a full-time job?
I think we need to be looking at a fundamental review of the role of our elected officials, the demands now being placed on some of the officials now is making it a full time role and we need clear consistent national regulations for all councils to follow.
I can only imagine the future will increase the burden and not decrease it, though it would mean a reduction in the breadth of experience, ability and insight as they become a more professional set which would put off many applying
“So why is VG in a different category to any other Torfaen councillor with a full-time job?”
Quite simply because of the special case of it being an AM. We are her employers, she could step down and continue in an elected role for the region.
If a councillor works for a private company or is self employed (which most of the working councillors are) they have different bosses and restraints that I feel the electorate can understand.
It is a question of morality, rather than technicality.
So does that rule out anyone who is a public servant also being a councillor?
“it’s about morality…”
That’s why I’m trying to see if there’s a rule that applies to everyone fairly, rather than a rule that gets conjured up when there’s some mischief to be made.
Adam.
My understanding is that a good deal of public sector jobs, particularly in councils have a ‘political sensitivity’ clause anyway? A fair number of public servants are not eligible for elected roles.
It is not mischief, I am a constituent, I am on the border of her ward, a good deal of my friends live in her ward and have expressed discontent. She could, if your attempts at justifying are so watertight, submit herself to the electorate in a by election. She never stood in 2008 on the ticket of a combining roles.
Trying establish some ‘rule’ according to your personal view is no better than my own attempts to put forward by strongly held belief. But I am sure that won’t stop you.
Some do, but there is no blanket rule that people should be excluded from local authority office on the basis that “we are her employers”. That catches everyone who works in the public sector. I’m sure you’ll agree that would not be right.
“a good deal of my friends live in her ward and have expressed discontent.”
Then they can attempt vote her out at the next election. That’s democracy. I do not see why she should resign and stand again in a by election because her employment circumstances have changed (or if she should, so should all councillors who undergo a similar life-change). If she feels she can’t to do both, she can stand down permanently of her own volition. If the electors come to that conclusion, they can kick her out.
“Trying establish some ‘rule’ according to your personal view is no better than my own attempts to put forward by strongly held belief.”
You’re the one suggesting something out of order is taking place here, not me. You have to put forward the case, not me. I say the status quo should prevail and that VG should receive the same treatment as any other full-time worker and/or public servant (other than those who are politically restricted, which she’s not) and that the matter is between VG and her electors. You seem to think a new rule should be created to stop this but don’t seem to be able to come up with a criteria that catches her but not others.
“You seem to think a new rule should be created to stop this but don’t seem to be able to come up with a criteria that catches her but not others.”
No I didn’t. I called for no rule to be established, I called for VG to stand down as she cannot commit 100% to both roles, and that she should confirm whether she is taking both wages.
It is simple if you was to have a rule though – you cannot occupy two politically elected roles at any one time. And for pedants, I don’t mean if you are elected as party leader and/or shadow cabinet etc. I mean you cannot hold the office of MP/AM/Councillor/MEP/Lord in duality.
Just for the record I managed to hold down a full time job and lead one of the unitary authorities for 7 years. Before that I worked in Swansea and was a member of Mid Glamorgan CC which met in Cardiff. It isn’t easy but it isn’t impossible to hold representative office and hold down a full time occupation.Lady German as a backbench opposition councillor representing a farly small ward should have no trouble carrying out the two roles.
Between 1983 and 1897 the late Peter Hubbard-Miles was the Tory MP for Bridgend as well as being a councillor at both county and district level for a part of Porthcawl. In England where there are still county and district councils it is quite common for individuals to represent an area at both levels.
In France most members of the National Assembly and even Government ministers double up as local mayors wihtout much difficulty. Being a councillor is not that time consuming particularly if you are not a member of the majority party. What’s involved? Nobody can even force you to go on any of the committees. For many the main meetings are the full council meeting and perhaps one scrutiny meeting. Avoid planning which might drag on for hours and licencing in a major city and most people should have no problem. Many of the meetings are in any case a complete waste of time hence the absence of the local press. Being a councillor should have moved on to much more than merely attending committee meetings. The role of community representative outside the council offices is just as important and I would have thought given the resources at her disposal as an AM, Lady German would have no problem holding surgeries in her ward and representing the problems of her constituents to council officers.
Well Marcus I hope when Lady German does the honorable thing and steps down, Plaid will have a suitable candidate in place to fight the election.
“Do we really WANT our AMs (even regional list AMs)…”
What does that mean?
“It is simple if you was to have a rule though – you cannot occupy two politically elected roles at any one time. ”
Of course you can. You are being a little ridiculous, Marcus. If the electorate have a problem they will exact their revenge. It is between her and them.
We should end the regional nonsense in any case and adopt multimember STV districts which I believe is the policy of Plaid Cymru. It’s a disgrace that at a time when we are supposed to be in a new politics, STV isn’t even on the agenda in Wales or at the UK level.
“Of course you can. You are being a little ridiculous, Marcus. If the electorate have a problem they will exact their revenge. It is between her and them.”
You misunderstand me Daran. I was quoting the potential rule, not saying ‘you cannot’ as in you are not able.
If in principle being a councillor and AM at the same time is OK, it would seem that being an AM and MP at the same time is OK also. Or does that duality cross some arbitrary line.
“If in principle being a councillor and AM at the same time is OK, it would seem that being an AM and MP at the same time is OK also. Or does that duality cross some arbitrary line.”
I can only presume you misunderstand what is being said. It is not for us to set any lines. The electorate will decide whether the situation is acceptable.
I don’t thiink I’ve misunderstood.
Anyone can suggest what they think the situation should or shouldn’t be. Maybe the electorate will decide whether the current situation is acceptable though there are plenty of examples of government setting lines on matters without the direct or even indirect agreement of the electorate.
And of course we can’t assume that voting for a candidate who is a councillor and AM or AM and MP is an endorsement of the situation anymore than not voting for them corresponds to disagreement.