Wanted – a white charger to defeat tribalism
Bubble — By Neil McEvoy on June 4, 2010 7:00 am
Will anything short of a miracle save primary education in West Cardiff?
I HAVE been political all my life, I can even remember organising votes in the play ground at the age of six. For me, politics encompasses almost every aspect of life. If I buy fair trade, it is a political decision. I bank with the Co-Op, which is also a political decision. Similarly, I helped found and still pay into my local credit union. Political, of course.
For somebody so highly political, people may find it strange to hear that there a part of politics that I detest and loathe. I hate the tribalism which especially encapsulates Labour politics. I was once told that the Labour Party is a family. You didn’t choose its members, but you stood by through them thick and thin, whether they were right or wrong. No surprise then that I left that particular Party in 2003 – or, rather, it left me.
The worst part of tribal party politics is opposing everything proposed by the other side, even when proposals bring benefit. I once remember a now-prominent party member inside the Labour Cardiff Council Group telling me in 1999 that I was not allowed to support a particular proposal because then-council leader Russell Goodway had put it forward. The particular idea was to save the Council £1 million.
“But it’s a good idea,” I argued.
“I know Neil, but it’s Russell Goodway.”
I did not vote against the proposal and the relationship between myself and this particular member was never quite the same again. Such is life.
Fast forward to 2008. Plaid Cymru have just agreed a coalition deal with the Liberal Democrats to run Cardiff Council. One of the agreements is to keep all the English medium schools in the Canton area of the city open while also expanding Welsh medium provision. The plan on the table was to close Lansdowne Primary School and transfer Ysgol Gymraeg Treganna to that site. If we were hard-headed politicians, we could have let things be and would have blamed decisions taken before we were elected. But we are rather an idealistic lot in Plaid and we wanted to do our very best for everyone, regardless of language. We changed policy and decided to build a new school.
I understood why the parents of Treganna were furious. They had waited long enough, with children stuffed in like sardines, and we then asked them to have to wait a further 12 months. In the interests of community cohesion and long term good relations, the Plaid group felt that a year’s delay was worth the wait, since that we were sure that we could open a brand new, state-of-the-art school.
When I announced our plans in City Hall, I can remember Labour councillors red-faced with anger, some of whom seemed to look like they were chewing on a proverbial wasp. Outside, the group of Canton Labour councillors were huddled, discussing all the options. They really should have looked around, because I was within ear shot. Poor though my hearing is, I heard one of them say they “could not support it”. He continued that they could not allow “McEvoy and Plaid Cymru…to ride to the rescue on a white charger.”
This troubled me greatly. Plaid had put forward an idea around which all the community could rally. Everyone could win, if there was support from all sides. I made up my mind to forget the party politics and to just do my best for all concerned. I felt desperately sorry for the Treganna parents and children and felt equally as bad for Lansdowne. Some parents had given me a rough ride for choosing to delay, but a new school was the Plaid Group’s priority, subject to all the normal consultation.
I personally offered the Labour Party a truce on the matter. I promised that Plaid would not seek to take credit for finding a solution and I said that we could manage media issues on the matter together. I spoke to Councillor Ramesh Patel at the bottom of the stairs on level one at County Hall in the Summer of 2008, saying that we could all do our best for everyone and move away from conflict. He councillor promised to get back to me, but I never heard from him. In the not too distant future, the same Councillor Patel who opposed providing halal food for muslim children in schools was comparing the growth of Welsh medium education to ethnic cleansing. His colleague, Richard Cook had previously spoken about Welsh medium being akin to Apartheid. Councillor Cook is a white, middle class male, which makes me wonder what he knows of such things. The use of prejudice in such a way disgusts me. I grew up as a brown-faced boy on a council estate, so I know a fair bit about prejudice. My time in Cardiff West Labour Party also gave me rough experiences of prejudice, as it did for Mohammed Islam and Jaswant Singh, both Plaid Cymru councillors in Cardiff.
Labour opposed the new build Welsh medium in Canton. They also opposed a new build Lansdowne, as well as any other proposal on the table. Labour has not put forward one single solution. Instead they have raised some hopes and dashed others. Their work of destruction is not over, however. The First Minister’s recent judgement hints at closing English schools in Grangetown or Canton. More division, more rows, more isolation of the Welsh language and more votes for Labour. It is a sick game of vote grabbing that Labour is playing. Rhodri Morgan is retiring next year and the only game in town is making sure that he is not replaced by a Plaid Cymru AM. If you look at how people voted in the West of our capital in local and Assembly elections, it is clear to see that Plaid has a good chance in a three-way fight in 2011.
Shameful party interest is the reason why Labour politicians are playing politics with children’s lives. Carwyn Jones’ took a decision within six days. Jane Hutt sat on it for six months and Leighton Andrews took six months to realise he had a personal interest. It is this kind of politics which I loathe and detest. It’s not about what is good for people; it about what is good for the Labour Party.
The whole school re-organisation process in Cardiff is now in disarray in both the Welsh and English sectors. There is a crisis of confidence among politicians and officials in County Hall because the decision has been nakedly made for party political advantage. In the view of many, Carwyn Jones has besmirched the office of First Minister. Given the extraordinary decision, I cannot believe that the First Minister was fully briefed, or had read up adequately on the topic. Perhaps the loud previous mutterings from Labour were correct? A lack of focus and detail, it was mooted not long ago.
Whatever is correct, Cardiff is in crisis and it is a crisis made within the cabal of Cardiff West Labour Party. The result now is that all children will suffer. Money previously earmarked for school improvements in the English sector will have to be switched to cater for this unexpected mess. Moreover, the Cardiff Plaid-Lib Dem coalition have plans to bring generational change in the provision of Welsh language education, ushering in third and fourth Welsh medium secondary schools. These plans are now questionable to say the least. We don’t know where we are and we don’t know if good, logical decisions will be thrown by the Labour Party.
The Welsh Local Government Association was biting in its criticism of the decision, because the rest of Wales now does not know how to proceed in terms of schools. Labour’s First Minister has blighted the whole of Wales. An urgent task and finish group between the WLGA and Assembly officials has been suggested. I wholeheartedly agree with this proposal. In addition, the Association of Directors of Education in Wales has pledged to support the council in a legal challenge through judicial review. I have also opened a positive dialogue with the teaching union UCAC along the same lines. Its initial, informal response was positive.
The simple fact is that the First Minister must find a solution to this problem. Perhaps it is his time to ride in on a charger and save the day? Cardiff Council is seeking legal advice on how to proceed and I would suggest that it may be in the First Minister’s own interest to work with us on an urgent solution. The solution will not be cheap, but I do know that this is exactly what Plaid Cymru demands and what our ministers should oversee.
Tags: Canton, Cardiff, First Minister, Labour, Plaid Cymru, school, Welsh medium education
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100 Comments
As a Cardif boy born and bred and a Plaid supporter its great to see Mr McEvoy taking on the welsh labour party they had 10 years to sort this mess out then blame the current administration Good on you Neil
Neil says:
“I note that Ralph Cook has certainly departed from the subject of this article. This is about Treganna and the chaos caused by Labour for party political reasons. Try and stay on the subject Ralph.”
It’s difficult to stay on topic with all the nonsense and paranoia displayed in some of the comments on this board, you can’t expect to be able to drop in unnecessary slander and political spin and deny others the opportunity to respond.
Where is your evidence that party political reasons are any kind of motive behind the decision made by the First Minister. I’m not interested in fantasy-land hypotheses, conspiracy theories or rhetorical hyperbole, simple facts upon which the accusation based is all I require. Are you able to provide hard evidence capable of standing up to objective scrutiny that the First Minister’s primary consideration in reaching his decision was how it would serve the interests of the Labour Party?
I suspect Plaid Cymru and Lib Dem Councillors have nothing more to offer than the highly subjective and somewhat delusional opinions I’ve read so far.
Ralph
You are very loyal to Cardiff West Labour Ralph! Loyal is not obsequious, is it? The election in 2011 in Cardiff West is a 3 way split, as you well know. That is exactly what this is about. Simon Brooks explains this in his article today on the local guardian. http://www.guardian.co.uk/cardiff/2010/jun/08/comment-playing-the-language-card
It never ceases to amaze me how the current Lib-Plaid collation, and Neil McEvoy in particular, have the ability to split once peaceful communities apart, to suit their respective political agendas, and no doubt their own egos.
There is no better example than the way in which he has SIMPLY and INSTANTLY shouted down the decision by the First Minister WITHOUT actually ADDRESSING any of the FACTS raised within the 10 pages in which the decision to reject the council’s proposal was made by the First Minister. Neil the Deputy Leader, and Leader Rodney Berman, may not like the decision but I would have far more respect for them if they tackled the FACTS raised within the assembly decision head on. But that is clearly asking for too much from them.
It is nice to see Plaid Riverside Councillor Mohammed Islam sticking up for his friend Neil. The contempt that people have for Plaid Councillor Mohammed Islam is clearly demonstrated by the gigantic fall in the vote for Plaid in Cardiff West at the 2010 General Election. The lowest vote for Plaid since 1997! No doubt as seems to be the case in all things involving Plaid, and rather than taking any responsibility for their own failures, they will simply blame their poor showing on magical ‘outside’ factors such as the leadership debate!
As part of my many questions to Neil, I will begin by the following – How confident are you that the decision by the First Minister is wrong? If you are so confident of the First Minister’s decision being wrong I challenge you to take it to Judicial Review. This will be the first true test of how confident the council really are on this issue! To the vocal BUT minority of Treganna parents that have behaved despicably throughout this process (no better example than the kicking and screaming at the Urdd last week) I say this – if you believe that the Lib-Plaid administration have got the decision right on this issue, then simply apply pressure on them to challenge the decision by the First Minister for Judicial Review! That will be a true test of whether the council ‘truly’ believe they have got it right on this issue and that Neil McEvoy truly supports you and your children!
Neil and Council Leader Rodney Berman like to talk about how closing Lansdowne School and moving the children on the site of Radnor Primary School was the best option for dealing with the surplus places issue. On what evidence are he and the Lib-Plaid coalition basing this claim? Also where is the evidence that such a move would be best for BOTH the children of Treganna and Lansdowne Primary School? The First Minister clearly came to the conclusion that it would not be in the best interest for BOTH the children of Lansdowne Primary School and Treganna! However, that shouldn’t let Neil McEvoy and the minority of Treganna parent’s from continuing to kick, scream and shout so that they get their way at the expense of the education of the children at Lansdowne Primary School!
A recent letter in the South Wales echo eloquently detailed exactly why NEIL MCEVOY IS WRONG ON THIS ISSUE!
“Consider the figures, Mr McEvoy
IT IS astounding how hypocritical and opportunistic Councillor McEvoy (Viewpoints, June 2) is in criticising Labour councillors in Canton for their defence of Lansdowne Primary School and their attempt to find an alternative solution to the demands of Treganna parents for a bigger school.
Perhaps, like the First Minister, he should consider the reality of the figures:
The three council maintained English-medium primary schools in Canton ward are Severn Road, Radnor and Lansdowne, with a combined capacity of 1,097 places.
At January 2010 these four schools had 953 children of primary school age, which means a surplus across the ward of 144 or 13%.
Lansdowne Primary, according to the council’s own figures, provided schooling for 327 pupils, but its closure would have meant the loss of a total of 390 places. It would have been impossible to transfer those places to the Treganna site which has capacity for only 169 children, never mind creating a nursery on the site as well.
A proposal to close any of the English-medium primary schools in Canton would therefore have created a dramatic shortage of English-medium school places, forcing parents to either send their children out of the catchment area or to a Welsh-medium school.
Consider instead the three council maintained English-medium primary schools in Councillor McEvoy’s ward of Fairwater – Peter Lee, Fairwater and Pentrebane – with a combined capacity of 843.
At January 2010 these three schools had 592 children of primary school age attending them, a surplus across the ward of 251 or 30%. The closure of the smallest school in his ward, Pentrebane Primary which at January 2010 had 153 pupils, could easily be absorbed by the surplus places at the two other schools.
As I hope he might appreciate, this would be an extremely difficult decision to take and would have a devastating effect on the children, parents and staff of that school.
Recent trends have shown increasing demand for English-medium schooling in Canton, with a 12% increase in demand for places in 2009 compared to 2008, an increase that, according to estimates, will be maintained in September 2010. A similar trend also seems apparent in the three Fairwater schools.
But if the closure of Pentrebane Primary had been the proposal put forward by Cardiff council would Councillor McEvoy have supported it?
Steven Biddlecombe
Conybeare Road, Canton, Cardiff
There are currently two Welsh Medium schools within the Canton Area. It is natural that parents would want to send their children to schools in areas that can be considered socio-economically affluent when compared to others and that there would naturally be a demand for such. However the educational needs of ALL children should NOT be dealt with simply on a privatised ‘demand’ basis and rather on the need’s and best interests of again ALL children in BOTH English-Medium and Welsh-Medium school’s throughout Cardiff. If our education system was based purely on demand there would likely be 100s of Welsh Medium Schools within the Canton area, as well as other socio-economically affluent areas throughout Cardiff. Whilst my estimation of ‘100s’ is used purely to emphasise my essential point, for those that deny that there is purely political motive for Neil McEvoy’s decision to pursue this policy (yes it is clearly his crusade that has led to this), and social ‘snobbery’ by some parents within the Welsh Medium sector, I ask this question:
Where has the calling been from the Welsh Medium sector to deal with the lack of provision for Welsh Medium education in Riverside and Grangetown?
It is a bit rich for the council to claim that they are dealing with the issue of surplus places throughout Cardiff when they fail to deal with those surplus places that exist within their own wards! Could this be down to the fear that, were they to do so that they would risk losing their own seats at the next council election in 2012? YES!
As above there are currently two Welsh-Medium schools within Canton, again where has the outcry been from the Welsh Medium sector to dealing with the lack of prevision for Welsh Medium education in Riverside and Grangetown?
I would very much respect the minority of Treganna parents that are kicking and screaming in supposed disgust if they were also calling for a new school in either Riverside or Grangetown as this would extend equally and proportionally the provision of Welsh Medium education throughout the south of the city. They have not EVER made such a calling though! Why is that? Is it again perhaps because Riverside and Grangetown are not viewed by them as living up to their pre-requisite ‘socially’ high standards when compared to the Canton area? For those that deny this issue is a factor, I also pose this additional question – some of the parents of Treganna are currently sending their children from outside the Canton area to Treganna, would it not make more sense for your children to be educated in the ward in which they reside? Again at the risk of sounding like a broken record, where has been the calling to deal with the lack of prevision for Welsh Medium education in Riverside and Grangetown? They can deny it but there are many Treganna parent’s that would have no problem at all in Lansdowne Primary School children being ‘shipped of’ to schools outside of Canton to simply make way for their children to take over the site of Lansdowne Primary! As the above letter in the Echo has highlighted, with the numbers of children in Lansdowne (continuing to grow) it would simply NOT have been possibly to appropriately house all those children on the site of Radnor Primary School!
As above I welcome any comments from Neil McEvoy on the above issues! I have no doubt you will blame at the door of everyone in Cardiff, and most notably the Labour Party, without EVER taking ANY responsibility for your own failures. However I look forward to being proved wrong in this respect.
I will end by the following – again Neil if you are so confident of the merits of the council case, I challenge you to take the First Minister’s decision to Judicial Review.
Surprise, surprise Neil, you didn’t even attempt to answer my question, yet you fail to withdraw your allegations against the First Minister and the Labour Party generally.
Whether or not a constituency represents a three-way split or not in the upcoming election (2011) is entirely irrelevant to my question unless you are able to demonstrate that the First Minister’s decision was made in order to influence the election result.
In my experience single issues do precious little to influence the outcomes of elections anyway.
I suggest your reply demonstrates you have no evidence for your allegations at all.
Ralph
Politics! My solution. Link text
Ralph I think you will find that Mr McEvoy is far toooooo busy involving himself in matters outside his own ward (Fairwater). He has no portfolio i.e. education yet he continues to split the once peaceful communities of Canton apart. Suggest that Mr.Mcevoy concentrates on his own ward instead of poking his nose in to things that don t concern him!!!!!
Deborah, my answer to that is here.
“IN reply to Coun Ralph Cook’s letter, can he tell me why he thinks living in Trowbridge gives him the right to tell parents living in Cathays which high school their children should attend? My children attend Cathays High School because it is our local community school, has excellent GCSE results that are continuing to improve and has excellent relationships with its feeder primary schools.”
I guess Cllr McEvoy’s not only one guilty of sticking his nose in another ward’s business, and he’s not even a member of the Executive!
Daniel J Evans should realise that Treganna parents support Welsh medium education in Riverside and Grangetown. However we live in Canton and we want Welsh medium education in our community.
Deborah, I don’t think we should hold our breath on Neil stopping to spread his hatred around Cardiff; it has unfortunately and always predictably come to be expected from him. No better example than today’s latest rant in the Echo, now he demanding that Plaid Ministers step down from the Government if this issue is not resolved! Forget trying to get cheap publicity Neil, can you answer any of my questions above? Any facts to share with us? We are waiting!
Daniel
There is a simple reason no one is calling for a Welsh medium school in Grangetown and Riverside – there is already one, the largest (and only new build) Welsh medium primary in the city that covers the area. The school is popular and full. The idea that it has to be in one of those wards to provide education to its residents is bizzare and increasingly anachronistic.
It seems to me to be disingenuous for Cardiff executive members to call on Assembly ministers to ‘come up with a solution’ to the problem in the wake of the rejection of its proposals. The Council need only look to the significant volume of consultation responses across both exercises 2008-9 to realise that respondents suggested all sorts of alternatives – and the WAG letter is very clear that the Council did not respond to these adequately. The fact is that the Council’s proposals was rejected simply because it could not provide assurances that it was an effective solution in educational terms.
Some of the statements issued by executive members suggest that they have not fully learnt from the WAG decision…I recommend thay they read it carefully with a view to learning from it, rather than responding to it in the way that they have. My favourite letter in the Echo described responses as ‘apoplectic’, which is never a good one in describing a reasoned and considered response to a serious issue….
The joint political commitment by councillors McEvoy and Berman in the Capital Vision statement to not close Lansdowne – yes, their shared political commitment in forming an administration, and let’s not forget that was THEIR commitment – now seems like little more than pure political expediency…and they now accused other politicians of playing politics….
Mared Roberts you have got Welsh Medium education in Canton as well as Ysgol Treganna you have Ysgol Pwll Coch on Lawrenny Ave and if the Council addressed the Grangetown issues 3 years ago and provided a Welsh Medium School in Grangetown as they had been promised if would free up places for Canton Children to attend.
The truth is that we now need a Welsh medium school in Grangetown AND for Treganna to move to 2 form entry (and remain in Canton of course). Treganna is now so full that its spread over 3 sites, while the portcabins are going up at Pwll Coch in September because that’s full too. We are not second class citizens as we’re made to feel by the Labour Party and our children deserve better than this.
I agree with Daniel J Evans on one thing. A judicial review is the best way forward.
In reply to Ben Llwyd’s point, Carwyn Jones’ decision letter is clear in referring to the fact that the Lansdowne catchment is already very well served by Ysgol Pwll Coch too for those seeking Welsh medium education…
Ben, I will address your point (still an absence of Neil on this issue) – It is one thing saying that Pwll Coch, Lawrenny Ave, Canton is in the ‘catchment’ area for Grangetown children and another thing making it seem as if the school itself is actually in ‘your’ area i.e. in Grangetown itself. This is part of the problem with regard to the supposed ‘demand’ for Welsh Medium education, there is naturally going to be a high demand for Welsh Medium education when the ‘catchment’ boundaries are so wide and strength across, for example, Grangetown and the surroundings areas like Butetown. Catchment areas in the case of English Medium School’s do not however strength that far and are generally limited to the ward itself. For example, in the case of Lansdowne Primary School the catchment area is just Canton.
I will end Ben by saying that Treganna currently have a number of pupils from OUTSIDE of the catchment area (i.e. Fairwater and Llandaf), why have Treganna accepted these children? Many parents of Treganna continuingly raise issue of the overcrowding in the school, so should they not be dealing with this issue in the first instance???
For those that claim this is not also a social issue (see my first post) I say this – why are the parents of Fairwater sending their children to Treganna in Canton when there are 51 surplus places (13%) in Ysgol Coed Y Gof, Pentrabane, Fairwater?
I forgot to add Ben – Ysgol Pwll Coch is NOT full! There are currently 36 vacancies in the school!
Daniel,
A couple of points on Pwll Coch: a number of those 36 vacancies (which amount to around 8% of the school roll) have come from in year movements which I guess are inevitable; certainly at the begining of the year a number of parents from within catchment area didn’t get places for their children and most to my knowledge accepted English language places rather than the alternative being offered by the council which was Adamsdown.
I would also argue that Grangetown being served by a bigger, new school (see Joanna’s post) means that all the children there get a better quality of education than would have been true from smaller schools in Canton and Grangetown. There are better facilities, it’s easier to attract and retain staff and the extremely mixed nature of the school population has to be beneficial to all concerned.
I don’t get your point on the school not feeling local; it got built where there was available land, lots of children from Grangetown go there and, more fundamentally, Welsh medium schools, catering for a smaller percentage of the population, are bound to have bigger catchment areas than English medium schools as indeed do Church schools, either Catholic or CiW. There seems to be a feeling on behalf of some parents of English medium schools that the large catchment areas of Welsh medium schools are somehow “unfair”. It surely matches demand to the provison of viable schools. It also means that in general Welsh medium pupils travel further to school (although all travel distances in Cardiff are much lower than the Welsh average so we should keep our complaints in that matter in perspective).
I think your points re Coed y Gof are very interesting – I certainly didn’t come on here to defend Treganna’s admissions policies, more to talk about provision for Riverside and Grangetown.
Deborah should be aware that I am the lead person in Cardiff Council on economic development. My idea of the Capital Cardiff fund is going very well, with just over £1,000 of investment for every job/projected job. This compares to £38,000 per job in other times with other agencies. I don’t think this can be criticised. Cardiff is leading the way for the rest of Wales on this.
I will answer Daniel in full, but am posting a very brief response as I have other matters to attend to presently. I just wanted to say though that subject to advice and discussions with our coalition colleagues, the Plaid Group in Cardiff favours Judicial Review on this whole matter. All of Wales can see it is political and I would be surprised if the First Minister fully read up on this. I believe a steer was given by the Cardiff West cabal, as everyone knows. There is something quite alluring about putting the First Minister and the former First Minister in the box to answer questions fired at them by a top legal brian employed by Cardiff Council (all hypothetical at this stage of course). We are all accountable. If anyone is interested in what we do in Fairwater, I will willingly email our reports to residents to them. For example, I recall making sure within 3 days that a lovely old lady had a functioning gas fire in her property. This took 3 days. Rhodri Morgan had written about the same issue 3 years previously in 2005. He hadn’t bothered following it up and the couple were cold in their own home.
Very Rhodri Morgan. It was lovely to take a call from the woman saying how much warmer they were. Of course, she had also told her former Labour councillors about it, but nothing was done. That is one of may reasons why they are “former” councillors.
Meant to say: RE Judicial Review. You heard it first here on Waleshome! atb
Mared Roberts I totally agree that the Children and Parents of Ysgol Treganna should not be treated like 2nd class citizens and the parents at Lansdowne Primary School have always supported the fact that there is a growing demand for Welsh Medium education in Canton, and that the conditions Treganna children are being taught in are by no way acceptable, what they have disagreed with is the fact that to achieve a better standard of education for Treganna the English medium children at Lansdowne and Radnor would suffer, this is not acceptable. Lansdowne has 398 children on Roll (including Nursery) combine this with 230 plus children at Radnor this is a total of 628 children the guarantee from the officers and throughout the consultation was that no children would be split from siblings and all would be able to transfer to the Radnor site, 628 would not be able to attend a school that is 17% smaller than Lansdowne Cardiff Council would simply be solving one problem and creating another. I agree the Canton Labour Councilors did not support the Closure of Lansdowne Primary School but because of that Treganna feels that meant they did not support Treganna that is simply not true I have witnessed first hand I can assure you that they have, as have many throughout the 3 years put forward different solutions for the Council to consider, this was pointed out by the First Minister he could see no evidence that the Council had ever considered any other options even through they proved to be less destructive to all Children involved and more cost effective. I know within a day of the proposal being rejected the Canton Councilors requested a meeting with Chris Jones Chief Schools officer and Freda Selway executive Member for education to try and put forward solutions to the problems at Treganna and I understand that the meeting has taken place and time will tell what comes from that meeting. This proposal was rejected on educational grounds not political I cannot understand any parent who would support a proposal to benefit their children whilst proving to have a major impact on the education of another set of Children. Whilst Cardiff Council have put forward ill thought risky proposals they now have to take responsibly for the mess they have caused and trying to pass the blame helps no one. There is a reason there were over 1700 objections, these objections were not all from Labour supporters I can assure you they were from people who were concerned over the education for all the Children in Canton. I hope that Cardiff Council and the Treganna parents realises that to take on a Judicial review would be time consuming and expensive and there is a good chance it won’t be won, have the Council and Parents of Treganna got the funds and time to see it through ? or should the time and money be better spent working as a community to benefit all children regardless of English Medium or Welsh Medium Education. Should a judicial review take place I wish you luck, I would have thought WAG in rejecting this proposal would have been prepared that it would always be a possibility that a judicial review could take place and I’m sure that they would have checked everything out before rejecting the Proposal.
response to Mike and Daniel J Evans:
I am glad you both agree with me reference councillors poking their noses in other peoples wards and causing mayhem! They do it for their own political gain and not always for the people who they are paid to look after….except for those few genuine councillors who shall remain nameless.
And with reference to that farcical piece in the Echo tonight where Mr McEvoy was allowed to have his rant and totally contradict himself
quite frankly was embarrassing. The Echo should not allow him the news print.
Mr McEvoy: well done on sorting out the lady in Fairwaters gas fire. Since when has Cardiff Council been running British Gas?
However I agree this was an important issue, but do you go around Fairwater with your eyes shut? You have promised so so much for the people of Fairwater but I don t see much evidence of that other than you upsetting people and taking the credit for things that the Labour Party had already put into place.
Admin’s note:
As I’ve said before, this article and the thread is not about the character of the author. If you cannot stick to the topic, your comment won’t be published.
I hope that is perfectly clear.
It was disappointing to see Neil McEvoy’s letter in today’s Echo. He appears to be suggesting that if it’s not Lansdowne to close, then the other schools in the area might be in line next. Now, if that’s how the Council go about generating schools organisation proposals, then it’s no surprise that its proposals get turned down by the Assembly. And, in considering any ‘next steps’, the Council would be foolish not to recognise that there have been significant events since November 2007 when Lansdowne was first in the frame for closure. The Assembly rejection letter itself refers to the fact that several new starter classes in Welsh medium education have been established since. Part of the problem with the Council’s proposals has been its ‘spotlighting’ approach (focusing on selected areas of the city, rather than a city-wide reorganisation). Given the comments on Welsh-medium catrchments, and the Assembly criticisms that the Lansdowne proposal was not the most ‘strategic’ one the council could have generated, then Welsh-medium provision might be one of those issues that is genuinely best considered as a city-wide issue…
Hello Adam,
Thank you for the moderator’s comment. I think that this is fine in principle. However, the author’s own comments in starting the post/thread are also pointedly personal (as have been comments made elsewhere), so it would seem wrong to criticise those posting comments for not dissimilar responses…
Yes, good point. Let’s keep it on the issue all round.
Mike said:
“IN reply to Coun Ralph Cook’s letter, can he tell me why he thinks living in Trowbridge gives him the right to tell parents living in Cathays which high school their children should attend? My children attend Cathays High School because it is our local community school, has excellent GCSE results that are continuing to improve and has excellent relationships with its feeder primary schools.”
I guess Cllr McEvoy’s not only one guilty of sticking his nose in another ward’s business, and he’s not even a member of the Executive!”
Sorry Mike I don’t think I gave any such view at any time. All I have done is ask questions about why Cathays High School (with all the factors taken into account) has not yet been looked at in the school reorganisation proposals. My reason for asking is because of all the schools in Cardiff Cathays most fits the criteria for closure set out in the Council administration’s school reorganisation plan. Only 41% of the school’s pupils are drawn from its catchment area and it occupies the smallest site.
What gives me the right to ask these questions? Being elected as a Cardiff City Councillor in 2008 gives me the duty (not just the right) to consider Cardiff-wide issues. Neil McEvoy likewise has the right (and the power which I do not have), to consider Cardiff-wide issues. The convention on Members of different wards not “interferring” in the business of a Ward that is not theirs is an informal one and applies only to casework (ie assisting residents with issues in the Ward). Executive Members of course can get involved in issues in any Ward (even casework) by virtue of their roles.
Finally, Cathays must be looked at but I suspect it will be left to last, after all the other schools have been dealt with but with the future of Cathays high school at the centre of their reorganisation. In my view the school reorganisation programme has been considered from a political and financial expediency perspective rather than with the needs of pupils uppermost in mind. As a result we will not ensure “best fit” for the city’s educational needs. The mongrel result of considering the ballot box and the cash box, it can be no surprise that there is so much controversy around the school reorganisation programme.
Ralph
Deborah,
I gave you my explanation why Neil McEvoy has some right to comment and intervene regarding Lansdowne and Treganna while Ralph Cook has not. For me it’s pretty personal. I have family in Lincoln Street, a cousin who has a new child, and I would like to know how their education needs will be met, also my family will be moving back to Cardiff, and Canton is possibly where we will be living.
Personally I think schools should not be closed as it’s a retrograde policy; unfortunately the Assembly Government has directed local authorities to close schools because of the problem of surplus places. Needless to say growing up in Ely I find your comments rather rich about Labour and Labour councilors. I attended schools that were falling down and neglected, never mind the council houses! Probably why there are no Labour councilors in Caerau now.
Where we live now the School Board are in charge and decision making is left at the local level (real devolution not the bogus variety that you are lumped with). The School Board usually consists of retired educators and parents who are elected every 4 years, works for us.
Stop arguing!
Hello Mike and welcome to the debate!
Councils are tasked with addressing surplus places. One blunt response is to close schools, as you outline. However, this is not what is necessarily required. There are other ways to reduce ‘surplus places’. The challenge is maintaining buildings when a school is not completely full. But what if councils were to think more creatively? What if they were to abandon the ‘schools must close’ philosophy, and instead think of the opportunities of co-locating library, training and adult education facilities alongside schools so that it wasn’t simply a case of ‘which school shall we close’? Other activities could ‘pay their way’ and locate alongside schools.
If the Canton experience has shown anything, then it is that closing a school is a highly emotive proposal and one best avoided if at all possible. So, some more clever thinking on the part of our councillors and their officers would be very welcome! ‘Surplus places’ can be addressed in several ways, and not only by closing schools….
Mike wrote:
“I gave you my explanation why Neil McEvoy has some right to comment and intervene regarding Lansdowne and Treganna while Ralph Cook has not.”
I trust my earlier reply (which may have been posted as you were writing the above), deals with this incorrect statement. All 75 Cardiff Councillors have a duty to contribute to this discussion and finding a way forward. As a human being I have the right to comment as well.
I also note that one of my contributions to this board has been excluded completely. I assume the administrator feels it was not relevant, however, when any controversial political issue is being discussed, the part played by the democratic process in who makes the decisions is fundamental.
So I repeat, in the last local government election the Liberal Democrats and Plaid polled third and fourth in terms of the number of votes cast for them. Labour polled second, just over 1,000 votes behind the Conservatives so I do not agree with Neil McEvoy that the current administration has the support it thinks it has.
Ralph Cook
Mike wrote:
“Personally I think schools should not be closed as it’s a retrograde policy; unfortunately the Assembly Government has directed local authorities to close schools because of the problem of surplus places.”
That is not correct Mike. The Assembly has not ordered Councils to close schools, only to address the issue of surplus places. Whilst I am not content with the Council’s plans in east Cardiff (especially with regard to the Secondary school location (Rumney Recreation Ground) and the proposed size (1,650 pupils), the Council has taken a leaf from other Council’s books and addressed surplus places by proposing a new build school to replace two schools that are no longer fit for purpose and which between them have a large number of surplus places. I oppose the detail of the solution but the principle behind it – providing a new-build – is something I can support and would like to see extended to other areas.
Several English counties have been successful in reorganising their schools with “school building programmes” rather than “school closure programmes” and right from the start of Cardiff’s reorganisation this is what I argued for. It is more complicated in Wales. In England Councils generally only have to consider state and denominational schools, we also have to consider Welsh Medium education. Nevertheless, our reorganisation could still have benefited from the “school building” approach rather than the blunt instrument of school closure which has often served to set one community against another (and not just English vs Welsh medium either).
Neil (not McEvoy) is correct about employing other imaginative approaches. One other issue that the Assembly has proposed is greater emphasis on creating community focussed schools, this is almost completely absent from Cardiff’s emerging proposals. For many years I have been frustrated by the fact that we have these large and expensive community assets with pools, gyms, classrooms, halls, computers, playing fields and other resources that are often virtually closed to the public outside school hours. There is so much that could be done to integrate schools with the life of their communities so that they were sustainable even if they had a high proportion of surplus places.
Sadly, it is all very well to talk of “community focussed schools” it is a completely different matter to convert that philosophy into meaningful action. Local Education Authorites would need to change their mindset as would school governing bodies and head teachers (and probably most importantly school site managers – caretakers too).
Mike also wrote:
“Needless to say growing up in Ely I find your comments rather rich about Labour and Labour councilors. I attended schools that were falling down and neglected, never mind the council houses! Probably why there are no Labour councilors in Caerau now.”
I very much doubt schools and council houses in Caerau were falling down as you suggest. In fact Caerau was benefiting from exactly the same regeneration programmes under the last Labour administration as my ward. The reasons why a political party loses its support in an area can be multifarious and should not be explained away with broad, sweeping claims that are exaggerations and untrue.
Ralph
Ralph,
I’ve just been back through our trashed comments to check. It’s not correct that we have excluded one of your comments. If you want to re-submit something, let me know.
Duncan.
Thanks Duncan
It must have timed out, got lost in the ether or I did something wrong. Apologies. Sadly I only have a vague recollection of the point I was making so I doubt it is worth trying to recall!
This is my last post on this subject. I feel the main thrust of Neil McEvoy’s article was that the decision on these proposals was made with the interests of the Labour Party uppermost in the First Minister’s mind. Neil has failed to offer any evidence to support this allegation. I therefore regard his argument as nothing more than unsubstantiated opinion, which says more about Neil state of mind than that of the First Minister. I can only conclude that Neil wrote the article with the interests of Plaid Cymru uppermost in his mind and therefore do not feel the article is worthy of further serious attention.
Ralph
Shame you feel that way, Ralph, because we would be more than willing to feature a piece from a Labour councillor in Cardiff in this issue. Please give the offer some thought – either for yourself or one of your colleagues.
Re: Ralph’s point: the “evidence” regarding the inappropriate expression of political views during consultation on Treganna and Lansdowne include the decision of the then First Minister, Rhodri Morgan, to publically support Lansdowne when still First Minister. The legal question is whether this process had thus been prejudiced in terms of WAG objectivity from the outset. I expect this matter to be raised as part of any judicial review (if that were to happen).
Re: the other posts above. The best place to go for a take by a supporter of WM education of the stats on education in Canton is the syniadau blog, in particular: http://syniadau–buildinganindependentwales.blogspot.com/2010/05/canton-schools-flaws-in-decision.html
Thank you Duncan,
Oh well, it wasn’t my last posting after all. I’ll mention the suggestion to members of the Labour Group.
I have generally refrained from commenting on school reorganisation unless I consider emerging proposals undesirable (such as closing Llanederyn High School and building a secondary school on Rumney Recreation Ground, rather than on an existing school site), or as in the case of Cathays High School, I wish to explore the Council’s adherence to the principles supposedly underpinning it’s schools reorganisation programme.
Except as part of the formal consultations, I have generally refrained from comment throughout the development of proposals in my Ward, which as it transpires I find myself broadly supporting (obviously there are a few niggles but the pursuit of perfection is a furtile exercise).
On 11th of June Neil McEvoy Wrote:
“For example, I recall making sure within 3 days that a lovely old lady had a functioning gas fire in her property. This took 3 days. Rhodri Morgan had written about the same issue 3 years previously in 2005. He hadn’t bothered following it up and the couple were cold in their own home.
Very Rhodri Morgan. It was lovely to take a call from the woman saying how much warmer they were. Of course, she had also told her former Labour councillors about it, but nothing was done. That is one of may reasons why they are “former” councillors.”
I have to tell readers that I have been informed these allegations are untrue.
Neil has failed to substantiate his allegation that the First Minister rejected Cardiff Council’s school proposal in pursuit of party political interests.
Perhaps he would be so kind as to substantiate the allegation made against Rhodri Morgan and three former Fairwater Councillors. It should be fairly easy to do this as Neil refers to something being written on the subject by Rhodri in 2005.
Ralph
Simon, in a nutshell this is Neil McEvoy’s allegation taken from his original piece:
“There is a crisis of confidence among politicians and officials in County Hall because the decision has been nakedly made for party political advantage.”
What I or the First Minister or anyone else for that matter thinks about the Council’s proposals is largely irrelevant here unless a view on the proposals was taken for naked “political advantage” as alleged by Neil.
Broadly speaking I understand his point to mean that the decision to reject the Council’s proposals was not based on any objective criteria but solely to further the interests of the Labour Party.
He has made what amounts to a very serious allegation, I assume doing so means he has evidence to support the allegation. I have asked him to share it with us and he has failed to do so – I therefore conclude he is pursuing Plaid Cymru’s political advantage by implying something underhand without any evidence to support the implication.
I may be mistaken but somehow, I doubt the Council will take the matter to judicial review, it would not be unusual for a Council’s political Executive to talk up a call for a judicial review to enliven the issue in the media and then “milk” all the attention to build their own profiles and for their own party political advantage. Er… Oh yes, that’s what Rodney and Neil appear to have been doing.
Ralph
The article obviously touched a nerve with you Ralph, as have the comments. I am awaiting my Freedom of Information Request result. It will be interesting to see if political advisers played much of a role. Who knows? Therefore, it is a bit early to present all evidence. Most readers of this site are savvy, so your protestations seem a bit misplaced to me really. When in a hole, stop digging.
I had some interesting chats this weekend and they reinforced my belief that the whole affair is totally political. Indeed, most parents see that. Most people see that various solutions were offered. Labour opposed them all; this is the key point.
Let’s see an article from one of the Canton councillors. Why are they silent? Just after publication, they were going to exercise a right of reply. What happened?
As for the other case, I can email you a copy of our leaflet on the matter.
This affair has a long way to run. If the Council gets appropriate legal advice, we can all listen to the evidence from the public gallery in court.
Just to emphasise to the Labour lot about Plaid’s attitude to Judicial Review: we are most certainly not grandstanding. When it comes to the law, I am most deadly serious. I think I proved that in my victorious libel fight, which was thrown out after roughly 90 minutes, including the adjourment. How many Labour people crowed about bankrupting me for months on end? Didn’t quite work out like that, did it?
The issue depends on advice that we receieve. We are talking about public money, so we cannot over step the mark. Take it as read however, that we are more than ready to pursue those responsible.
Watch this space.
Ahh, Neil so now we have it, it’s only really your belief, you are still hoping for evidence to back up your belief. You have thrown around allegations of a serious nature based on your belief that there’s something not right.
Fair enough, at least you are consistant. Your two comments above are vintage McEvoy politics.
“raw nerve”? – not at all, education has always been important to me and I want to be certain decisions are based on fulfilling the needs of our young people so that they can make the best out of life, that’s why I wanted to know whether there was any evidence to back up your claim.
I object to the decision on the new secondary school site in east Cardiff and the Council’s Executive, yourself included has provided all the evidence to back up my allegation that the decision to site the school on Rumney Recreation Ground was financially-led. You lack the equivalent, relying on belief alone.
I understand the Canton Councillors are engaged in a constructive dialogue with the Executive at this time and unlike you are refraining from adding fuel to the fire. An approach that I approve of and I am sure all “sides” would regard as responsible.
“I think I proved that in my victorious libel fight” – Niel, I was not involved in this, but I understand the substance of the case were not even discussed in court. It was thrown out of court on a technicallity and the complainant was confronted with the choice of spending large sums of money (in the tens of thousands of pounds), or letting the matter drop.
The issue for me in that case was why did the complainant feel compelled to explore taking out a libel action in the first place? Because you made allegations against him that were based it seems largely on your beliefs.
That makes for poisonous politics and damages the reputations of all of us in the end.
Ralph
Councillors, if you keep this going this will end up as the most commented upon article we’ve ever run. And that’s my spot. Fancy calling a truce when you reach 100?
It is a bit rich for Labour to suddenly talk about being positive after years of opposition to all solutions in Canton. Where were their solutions previously? Ralph is keen to comment, so could Ralph Cook outline the position of Canton’s Labour councillors with the last consultation?
Lisa,
I don’t believe Labour have opposed all solutions in Canton – and anyway all solutions have not yet been considered. No I cannot outline the position of Canton’s Labour Councillors, that’s for them to do.
Finally, Lisa you may not be aware of it but one of the duties of a Councillor is to represent all the people in their ward and often to articulate concerns they themselves may not share and which are at loggerheads with views of other sections of the same community.
This is a skill that requires a degree of thoughtfulness, competance and measured temperament that is not well-represented in the kind of people who fire off unsubstantiated allegations as if they were based on established fact.
Ralph
Good to see Ralph suggesting that “the duties of a Councillor is to represent all the people in their ward and often to articulate concerns they themselves may not share and which are at loggerheads with views of other sections of the same community.”
Good too to hear that this is “a skill that requires a degree of thoughtfulness, competance and measured temperament that is not well-represented in the kind of people who fire off unsubstantiated allegations as if they were based on established fact.”
Does Ralph consider that Labour Cllr. for Canton, Ramesh Patel, a man who described the Council’s proposals for WM education on the Lansdowne site as “ethnic cleansing”, is such an individual?
It is now over 4 years since Labour made the first of its many oppositions to suitable provision for WM education in Canton, and there has still been no suggestion by anybody in the Cardiff West Labour Party about how they intend to provide for the education of children from Canton in the community of Canton through the medium of Welsh.
I would like to hear some input from Lansdowne parents. At the moment it’s beginning to resemble Welsh/English, Plaid/Labour Punch and Judy show.
I cannot speak for all Lansdowne parents, yet the decision of the Welsh Assembly Government is obviously a welcome one and reflects the outcome we were campaigning for since November 2007. It has been a real campaign and struggle to take on a council over that period of time…yet everyone played a role in defending the school against what we considered a weakly-justified proposal. It has been disappointing to hear rumours and conjecture about next steps via blogs, rather than be properly briefed by the council. I hope the council comes forward with a better proposal and learns from the experience of having its proposal rejected…
Neil (Not McEvoy) said
“I cannot speak for all Lansdowne parents, yet the decision of the Welsh Assembly Government is obviously a welcome one and reflects the outcome we were campaigning for since November 2007. It has been a real campaign and struggle to take on a council over that period of time…yet everyone played a role in defending the school against what we considered a weakly-justified proposal. It has been disappointing to hear rumours and conjecture about next steps via blogs, rather than be properly briefed by the council. I hope the council comes forward with a better proposal and learns from the experience of having its proposal rejected”
Who are “we”? Since you are not a parent what is your interest, and would you not agree that this was a problem that was not dealt with prior to the current administration (I assume).I broadly agreed with your point of using schools for other activities (I would situate libraries in leisure centers myself).
Ralph as far as the Labour’s performance in Caerau and Ely that is based on anecdote just as much as “Deborah”‘s was over Fairwater. Stats dont mean much. As for the schools this was something told me an old teacher of mine who worked extensively for South Glam LEA “20 years of neglect”. and since I knew he was a Labour supporter he had no axe to grind. School building, great idea! Forget it. This part of plan to upgrade and replace aging English schools by 2015 (N/A to Welsh schools which is devolved).
I disagree with this administration’s policy about closing schools, when the existing stock should be upgraded and new schools built. treating kids like numbers on a audit is just plain wrong. I think its time for fresh thinking and less of this crass partisanship
And with use of language such as “Apartheid” and “ethnic cleansing” I am not surprised that Welsh speaking parents feel the way they do.
Finally I dont understand the rationale over closing schools when Cardiff has a projected growth of 100,000 by 2033. If its a issue of money its time that the WAG stepped up to the plate and give local authorities the capital they need.
The Plaid position was to build a new school, not closure. In effect however, the closure of Lansdowne option did not reduce the number of schools locally. It was a change of language to reflect trends.
Mike – the reference to ‘we’ is the campaign group of parents and the children of the school…not sure why you assumed I am not a parent…
In response to Neil McEvoy’s point, the proposal for a new school was not supported by very many people at all, including the parents promoting Welsh-medium education and wishing for Ysgol Treganna to move to the Lansdowne site. It was also not a well thought out proposal in other ways (for example, it neglected to consider moving the area’s existing one form entry school to the proposed new site).