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	<title>Comments on: The smoke surrounding this renewable plan</title>
	<atom:link href="http://waleshome.org/2010/04/the-smoke-surrounding-this-renewable-plan/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/04/the-smoke-surrounding-this-renewable-plan/</link>
	<description>Independent analysis from and about Wales</description>
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		<title>By: Illtyd Luke</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/04/the-smoke-surrounding-this-renewable-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-9912</link>
		<dc:creator>Illtyd Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=9821#comment-9912</guid>
		<description>It seems a bizarre proposal, simply applying &quot;renewable&quot; buzz words to the same old large-scale power generation that is no longer suitable for this age.

In reply to lyn David Thomas, Wales already has two brilliant energy strategies but they ultimately mean little because everything over 50mw (and the subsidy regime needed to operate most kinds of power plants whether they&#039;re renewable or conventional) is not devolved! It&#039;s a travesty of democracy and the unelected IPC which has no panel member from Wales will be able to rule on our energy future.

Within the next fifty years, even allowing for prenergy not to go ahead, Wales will produce more than twice as much energy as it needs.

Expect independence to be well and truly back on the agenda!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems a bizarre proposal, simply applying &#8220;renewable&#8221; buzz words to the same old large-scale power generation that is no longer suitable for this age.</p>
<p>In reply to lyn David Thomas, Wales already has two brilliant energy strategies but they ultimately mean little because everything over 50mw (and the subsidy regime needed to operate most kinds of power plants whether they&#8217;re renewable or conventional) is not devolved! It&#8217;s a travesty of democracy and the unelected IPC which has no panel member from Wales will be able to rule on our energy future.</p>
<p>Within the next fifty years, even allowing for prenergy not to go ahead, Wales will produce more than twice as much energy as it needs.</p>
<p>Expect independence to be well and truly back on the agenda!</p>
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		<title>By: Bethan Jenkins</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/04/the-smoke-surrounding-this-renewable-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-9898</link>
		<dc:creator>Bethan Jenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 15:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=9821#comment-9898</guid>
		<description>Len, I too have been supportive of PT-RAPS and attended protests a few years ago when this whole thing kicked off. I also proposed a motion to Plaid Conference on the matter last September, but it did not pass, unfortunately. I think that we need to look at the scale of this proposal and put it in context, which, with all due respect, many party members were not aware of at the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Len, I too have been supportive of PT-RAPS and attended protests a few years ago when this whole thing kicked off. I also proposed a motion to Plaid Conference on the matter last September, but it did not pass, unfortunately. I think that we need to look at the scale of this proposal and put it in context, which, with all due respect, many party members were not aware of at the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Len Gibbs</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/04/the-smoke-surrounding-this-renewable-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-9844</link>
		<dc:creator>Len Gibbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=9821#comment-9844</guid>
		<description>Bethan Jenkins has suddenly and unexpectedly beome my most favourite AM!...although on this issue Dr Gibbons has consistently supported the PT-RAPS group.

This is one of the instances I gave to an earlier question about local devolution and got accused of being NIMBY. However, Betahn Jenkins is absolutely right. She has laid out the issues brilliantly. The case against Prenergy is substantial. The site is in close proximity to residential housing. This is dangerous. The recent explosion in Middleton, Conn. USA illustrates the point. The power plant was three miles from the nearest housing. Had it been as close as Prenergy to houses there would have been fatalities. 

The visual aspect is unacceptable and it is likely to be the case that the value of the houses on Mariners Point will fall as much as 50% without any compesnation to the householders. In addition the fire risk to the whole of Port Talbot is very high. The prevailing wind crosses over Prenergy over the town. A large scale fire that cannot be put out will cause heavy smoke pollution and in all proababiltiy fire sparks that may have the same effect as incendaries. It could result in widespread fire and the burning of the town. A domesday scenario? Considering the amount and volume of the stored material It is one that has to be considered.

I questioned the former MD of Prenergy on wood chip source and got an evasive answer. Sources included Latvia and Chile and British Columbia (and&#124;Oregon) - imported via the Panama Canal. 
I took up the issue with people in British Columbia who laughed at the concept of shipping pine chip to Wales. The maximum amount available would not last more than three years. The concept is flawed and the appeal needs to be rejected.

Congratulations to Bethan on her informed and clear explanation as to why.

Daran...
This is the 667th comment...the devil is in the detail. If Prenergy goes ahead and things go wrong, there&#039;ll be  *ell of a fire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bethan Jenkins has suddenly and unexpectedly beome my most favourite AM!&#8230;although on this issue Dr Gibbons has consistently supported the PT-RAPS group.</p>
<p>This is one of the instances I gave to an earlier question about local devolution and got accused of being NIMBY. However, Betahn Jenkins is absolutely right. She has laid out the issues brilliantly. The case against Prenergy is substantial. The site is in close proximity to residential housing. This is dangerous. The recent explosion in Middleton, Conn. USA illustrates the point. The power plant was three miles from the nearest housing. Had it been as close as Prenergy to houses there would have been fatalities. </p>
<p>The visual aspect is unacceptable and it is likely to be the case that the value of the houses on Mariners Point will fall as much as 50% without any compesnation to the householders. In addition the fire risk to the whole of Port Talbot is very high. The prevailing wind crosses over Prenergy over the town. A large scale fire that cannot be put out will cause heavy smoke pollution and in all proababiltiy fire sparks that may have the same effect as incendaries. It could result in widespread fire and the burning of the town. A domesday scenario? Considering the amount and volume of the stored material It is one that has to be considered.</p>
<p>I questioned the former MD of Prenergy on wood chip source and got an evasive answer. Sources included Latvia and Chile and British Columbia (and|Oregon) &#8211; imported via the Panama Canal.<br />
I took up the issue with people in British Columbia who laughed at the concept of shipping pine chip to Wales. The maximum amount available would not last more than three years. The concept is flawed and the appeal needs to be rejected.</p>
<p>Congratulations to Bethan on her informed and clear explanation as to why.</p>
<p>Daran&#8230;<br />
This is the 667th comment&#8230;the devil is in the detail. If Prenergy goes ahead and things go wrong, there&#8217;ll be  *ell of a fire.</p>
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		<title>By: Daran Hill</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/04/the-smoke-surrounding-this-renewable-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-9758</link>
		<dc:creator>Daran Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=9821#comment-9758</guid>
		<description>This is the 666th item we have published on this site. Maybe biomass is devil&#039;s work...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the 666th item we have published on this site. Maybe biomass is devil&#8217;s work&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: senn</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/04/the-smoke-surrounding-this-renewable-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-9751</link>
		<dc:creator>senn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 14:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=9821#comment-9751</guid>
		<description>I agree their is not enough woodchip or biomass at present  to justify such a large power station.
A  biomass station in Scotland needs woodchip imported from America.
Smaller scaled power stations may be justified if the Carbon released can be contained or lessened.
I think if their was  a &#039;free market&#039; system operating in the countryside over land in Wales this type of large power station may be  tenable.
But at present we have a vexed type of socialism due to land ownership, that landowners get hefty payments in lieu of owning the land. 
If we could get to a state where more free market economics operates over land ownership this will help the overall economy considerably and more biomass could be grown which could be burnt in this type of power station, with the existing forests taking Carbon out of the atmosphere, simple carbon cycle. 
We need Afforestation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree their is not enough woodchip or biomass at present  to justify such a large power station.<br />
A  biomass station in Scotland needs woodchip imported from America.<br />
Smaller scaled power stations may be justified if the Carbon released can be contained or lessened.<br />
I think if their was  a &#8216;free market&#8217; system operating in the countryside over land in Wales this type of large power station may be  tenable.<br />
But at present we have a vexed type of socialism due to land ownership, that landowners get hefty payments in lieu of owning the land.<br />
If we could get to a state where more free market economics operates over land ownership this will help the overall economy considerably and more biomass could be grown which could be burnt in this type of power station, with the existing forests taking Carbon out of the atmosphere, simple carbon cycle.<br />
We need Afforestation.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyn David Thomas</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/04/the-smoke-surrounding-this-renewable-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-9743</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyn David Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 10:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=9821#comment-9743</guid>
		<description>I remember campaigning in Brecon 13 years ago and hearing of a proposed biomass plant. A local saw mill in cooperation with local farmers wanted to open a small scale biomass plant. This would burn locally sourced willow, grown by farmers as a biomass crop and the waste from the saw mill. This would have safeguarded local jobs in the saw mill and created an additional revenue stream. It was blocked by a Powys County Council because the chimney would have been visible and could have affected the income of the owner of a near by caravan site.  

This is exactly the sort of carbon neutral small scale generation that we need. I have grave doubts about any massive energy schemes. The Port Talbot one seems to have many question marks over it. We need a proper energy strategy that refocuses on local solutions and re prioritises energy conservation measures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember campaigning in Brecon 13 years ago and hearing of a proposed biomass plant. A local saw mill in cooperation with local farmers wanted to open a small scale biomass plant. This would burn locally sourced willow, grown by farmers as a biomass crop and the waste from the saw mill. This would have safeguarded local jobs in the saw mill and created an additional revenue stream. It was blocked by a Powys County Council because the chimney would have been visible and could have affected the income of the owner of a near by caravan site.  </p>
<p>This is exactly the sort of carbon neutral small scale generation that we need. I have grave doubts about any massive energy schemes. The Port Talbot one seems to have many question marks over it. We need a proper energy strategy that refocuses on local solutions and re prioritises energy conservation measures.</p>
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		<title>By: Financier</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/04/the-smoke-surrounding-this-renewable-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-9742</link>
		<dc:creator>Financier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 09:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=9821#comment-9742</guid>
		<description>Bethan is correct - there is not enough biomass in Wales to sustain this plant long term and it will have to be imported.

Secondly, I am not aware of detailed plans for carbon capture and storage for this proposed plant. Thirdly, the apparent imposition of this plant should not be an excuse for WAG to rack up false brownie points on the green agenda bandwagon. 

WAG needs to look seriously at the natural advantages given to Wales as sources of truly renewable energy, e.g. tidal (both rise and fall as well as ebb and flow) as well as offshore wind and small scale hydro and to piggy-back of the technology that has been developed and proven by other countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bethan is correct &#8211; there is not enough biomass in Wales to sustain this plant long term and it will have to be imported.</p>
<p>Secondly, I am not aware of detailed plans for carbon capture and storage for this proposed plant. Thirdly, the apparent imposition of this plant should not be an excuse for WAG to rack up false brownie points on the green agenda bandwagon. </p>
<p>WAG needs to look seriously at the natural advantages given to Wales as sources of truly renewable energy, e.g. tidal (both rise and fall as well as ebb and flow) as well as offshore wind and small scale hydro and to piggy-back of the technology that has been developed and proven by other countries.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2010/04/the-smoke-surrounding-this-renewable-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-9741</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 08:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=9821#comment-9741</guid>
		<description>Bethan,
You have raised several valid points of concern about this massive proposal in Port Talbot. I support the principle of biomass but the sheer size of this plant and the fact that the woodchips come such a distance really does raise issues of its real carbon footprint.

Smaller plants than this which rely on more local supplies and can prove that particulates are minimised if not eradicated are, in my opnion, a genuine renewable option. If CO2 is all that is produced, then this is not a local pollution as it immediately enters the atmosphere with no affect on the local environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bethan,<br />
You have raised several valid points of concern about this massive proposal in Port Talbot. I support the principle of biomass but the sheer size of this plant and the fact that the woodchips come such a distance really does raise issues of its real carbon footprint.</p>
<p>Smaller plants than this which rely on more local supplies and can prove that particulates are minimised if not eradicated are, in my opnion, a genuine renewable option. If CO2 is all that is produced, then this is not a local pollution as it immediately enters the atmosphere with no affect on the local environment.</p>
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