Comments on: Journalism: from the bottom rung http://waleshome.org/2010/02/journalism-from-the-bottom-rung/ Independent analysis from and about Wales Sat, 11 Feb 2012 08:00:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Rosie Niven http://waleshome.org/2010/02/journalism-from-the-bottom-rung/comment-page-1/#comment-7087 Rosie Niven Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:02:51 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=7567#comment-7087 I've just come across this blog today and was interested in David and Rob's comments. I've blogged a number of times in the last month or so about not-for-profit models of journalism and have also filed a feature to the Journalist magazine that covers journalism collectives and cooperatives. http://rosieniven.wordpress.com/2010/01/24/stop-collaborate-and-listen/ My view is that the number of news co-ops will grow, but they will continue to be a niche player. I'd be interested in discussing the potential for not-for-profit models with others. I hope to raise it at tomorrow's Future of News event in London. I’ve just come across this blog today and was interested in David and Rob’s comments. I’ve blogged a number of times in the last month or so about not-for-profit models of journalism and have also filed a feature to the Journalist magazine that covers journalism collectives and cooperatives.

http://rosieniven.wordpress.com/2010/01/24/stop-collaborate-and-listen/

My view is that the number of news co-ops will grow, but they will continue to be a niche player. I’d be interested in discussing the potential for not-for-profit models with others. I hope to raise it at tomorrow’s Future of News event in London.

]]> By: How the j-school students are taking control « How to microblog in high heels http://waleshome.org/2010/02/journalism-from-the-bottom-rung/comment-page-1/#comment-6830 How the j-school students are taking control « How to microblog in high heels Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:04:22 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=7567#comment-6830 [...] should be noted, however, some students still find this an incredibly daunting and difficult time to get into journalism. But there is also an air of excitement surrounding the possibilities for young entrepreneurs, and [...] [...] should be noted, however, some students still find this an incredibly daunting and difficult time to get into journalism. But there is also an air of excitement surrounding the possibilities for young entrepreneurs, and [...]

]]> By: Cambria Politico http://waleshome.org/2010/02/journalism-from-the-bottom-rung/comment-page-1/#comment-6149 Cambria Politico Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:38:40 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=7567#comment-6149 Perhaps we could discuss the value of 'embedded' journalists. Not just in the context of a war but also in localities (rural towns and villages) or communities of interest (Senedd, Westminster). Most journalists (should) operate by having 'sources' of news (pub, police station, mortuary, county council, market) . This means that people have to know who they are and whom to approach with their gossip, titbit, scandal, secret, complaint und so weiter. As Katie and others have said many (but not all) journalists are now 'churnalists' which means they are sat at a desk copying and pasting from press releases and newswires and answering the phone all day. In the days of strong regional newspapers the local journalists were 'out' all day (amongst their sources) and people knew them as people. But this costs money both from an expenses standpoint and also so the journalists can have a living wage to keep them 'out' there and not hobbling at another job in order to eat or keep a family. People will divulge their stories to a real person not via twitter or email or even the phone. The best stories come from engaging in the community, from being in the pub, from parties and from gossiping and from research/investigation of a pet project that has made you furious or intrigued. In spite of all the new ways of communication we have (mobile phones, internet) it still requires a (properly trained) journalist to be 'embedded' in their communities. Sadly, this is no longer happening as much; sometimes I think technology is driving us apart rather than bringing us closer together. It's the same in politics - when was the last time anybody ever saw their MP or AM? This is in spite of the knowledge that voters can be influenced by personal contact such as door stepping and baby kissing. Mind you expensegate has caused some of them to go into hiding in case they get battered verbally and physically! Perhaps we could discuss the value of ‘embedded’ journalists. Not just in the context of a war but also in localities (rural towns and villages) or communities of interest (Senedd, Westminster). Most journalists (should) operate by having ‘sources’ of news (pub, police station, mortuary, county council, market) . This means that people have to know who they are and whom to approach with their gossip, titbit, scandal, secret, complaint und so weiter.
As Katie and others have said many (but not all) journalists are now ‘churnalists’ which means they are sat at a desk copying and pasting from press releases and newswires and answering the phone all day. In the days of strong regional newspapers the local journalists were ‘out’ all day (amongst their sources) and people knew them as people. But this costs money both from an expenses standpoint and also so the journalists can have a living wage to keep them ‘out’ there and not hobbling at another job in order to eat or keep a family.
People will divulge their stories to a real person not via twitter or email or even the phone. The best stories come from engaging in the community, from being in the pub, from parties and from gossiping and from research/investigation of a pet project that has made you furious or intrigued.
In spite of all the new ways of communication we have (mobile phones, internet) it still requires a (properly trained) journalist to be ‘embedded’ in their communities. Sadly, this is no longer happening as much; sometimes I think technology is driving us apart rather than bringing us closer together.
It’s the same in politics – when was the last time anybody ever saw their MP or AM? This is in spite of the knowledge that voters can be influenced by personal contact such as door stepping and baby kissing. Mind you expensegate has caused some of them to go into hiding in case they get battered verbally and physically!

]]> By: Rob Williams http://waleshome.org/2010/02/journalism-from-the-bottom-rung/comment-page-1/#comment-6128 Rob Williams Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:17:44 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=7567#comment-6128 It strikes me that the more airy-fairy discussion we have about new media and social media replacing news the more the concept of journalism gets denigrated. The truth is that previously barriers to entry in the media market were so high that people couldn't produce writing that was widely read, and therefore couldn't compete with mainstream media owners. If anyone thinks that has changed they are sorely mistaken. Barriers to entry are as high as ever if you want to compete with mainstream media instead of just blogging screeds in the web-wilderness, or in your niche silo. Because of this the democratisation of news won't happen in the revolutionary manner folk think it will. Social media, for instance, is too noisy already, and news organisations were at least usually pretty good at filtering out that noise.There is no editorial process and no real quality. Also people tend not to trust it, and in many cases they are right to be wary. Think of the complex editorial process associated with the production of a newspaper, and compare it to a hyperlocal blog or website with a twitter feed. They are different things for massively different purposes. Besides which its worth remembering that there is precedent for these kind of developments being adopted and killed by mainstream media. Thus it's best not to get evangelical about the future of news (there's a conference every couple of days in London on this subject!) and recognise that it's impossible to write the recipes for the cookbooks of the future. One thing is for sure though, without a sustainable funding model nothing will happen, and that's where we're stuck now. I'm interested in mutuality and co-operative funding ideas, but it seems unlikely to me to be a rival to the dominant model in an advanced capitalist society. Maybe I'm a cynic, maybe I'm a dinosaur, or maybe I just know the industry too well. As ever with these things it's important to point to a model that's working Can you provide a good co-operative example in the media industry David? I'd be glad to hear from you if you can...it's a fascinating idea, and thanks for your comments. mabiblogion@googlemail.com It strikes me that the more airy-fairy discussion we have about new media and social media replacing news the more the concept of journalism gets denigrated.

The truth is that previously barriers to entry in the media market were so high that people couldn’t produce writing that was widely read, and therefore couldn’t compete with mainstream media owners.

If anyone thinks that has changed they are sorely mistaken. Barriers to entry are as high as ever if you want to compete with mainstream media instead of just blogging screeds in the web-wilderness, or in your niche silo. Because of this the democratisation of news won’t happen in the revolutionary manner folk think it will.

Social media, for instance, is too noisy already, and news organisations were at least usually pretty good at filtering out that noise.There is no editorial process and no real quality. Also people tend not to trust it, and in many cases they are right to be wary. Think of the complex editorial process associated with the production of a newspaper, and compare it to a hyperlocal blog or website with a twitter feed. They are different things for massively different purposes.

Besides which its worth remembering that there is precedent for these kind of developments being adopted and killed by mainstream media. Thus it’s best not to get evangelical about the future of news (there’s a conference every couple of days in London on this subject!) and recognise that it’s impossible to write the recipes for the cookbooks of the future.

One thing is for sure though, without a sustainable funding model nothing will happen, and that’s where we’re stuck now.

I’m interested in mutuality and co-operative funding ideas, but it seems unlikely to me to be a rival to the dominant model in an advanced capitalist society. Maybe I’m a cynic, maybe I’m a dinosaur, or maybe I just know the industry too well. As ever with these things it’s important to point to a model that’s working Can you provide a good co-operative example in the media industry David?

I’d be glad to hear from you if you can…it’s a fascinating idea, and thanks for your comments.

mabiblogion@googlemail.com

]]> By: David Phillips http://waleshome.org/2010/02/journalism-from-the-bottom-rung/comment-page-1/#comment-6127 David Phillips Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:57:51 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=7567#comment-6127 Kate said: "Journalists have to become increasingly entrepreneurial in their outlook, and clearly we need to look at challenging so-called ‘traditional’ ways of funding news." I agree with you Kate. Actually I think the way forward may be to be an aggregator or publisher of content. This way you would be providing the forum for individual journalists/writers/bloggers to make contributions. I guess you would be free to monetise it with advertising or as someone above has mentioned, secure some sponsorship. Alternatively, you could get together with some like-minded folk and set up a co-operative which would be able to attract start up capital so long as you have a sound business plan. Just google " the Co-operative Fund" which shows how the co-operative approach can provide solutions to a whole range of challenges. Looking further out I think the trend will be for the sources of news creation to be far more disbursed and the "traditional" model will be replaced by thousands of contributors across the globe. This trend will see an exponential surge with the growth of social media like twitter. I reckon the very concept of what is news will be transformed over time - a democratisation of content; now there's a co-operative ideal for you! Kate said:
“Journalists have to become increasingly entrepreneurial in their outlook, and clearly we need to look at challenging so-called ‘traditional’ ways of funding news.”

I agree with you Kate. Actually I think the way forward may be to be an aggregator or publisher of content. This way you would be providing the forum for individual journalists/writers/bloggers to make contributions.

I guess you would be free to monetise it with advertising or as someone above has mentioned, secure some sponsorship.

Alternatively, you could get together with some like-minded folk and set up a co-operative which would be able to attract start up capital so long as you have a sound business plan.

Just google ” the Co-operative Fund” which shows how the co-operative approach can provide solutions to a whole range of challenges.

Looking further out I think the trend will be for the sources of news creation to be far more disbursed and the “traditional” model will be replaced by thousands of contributors across the globe. This trend will see an exponential surge with the growth of social media like twitter.

I reckon the very concept of what is news will be transformed over time – a democratisation of content; now there’s a co-operative ideal for you!

]]> By: Katie Prescott http://waleshome.org/2010/02/journalism-from-the-bottom-rung/comment-page-1/#comment-6123 Katie Prescott Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:07:58 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=7567#comment-6123 Thanks very much for your comments. I think we need to be brave with the business of funding journalism - and not be ashamed to place a value on journalists' time. Purely advertising online doesn't generate the kind of funds which newsrooms need to run effectively. We may have got used to reading the papers online, but why should this be free? With the advent of e-book readers, writers and publishers will be benefiting from two income streams for their work. Why should journalism be any different? I like the idea though of becoming a psuedo-sports star...the closest I'll ever get no doubt! K Thanks very much for your comments.

I think we need to be brave with the business of funding journalism – and not be ashamed to place a value on journalists’ time. Purely advertising online doesn’t generate the kind of funds which newsrooms need to run effectively.

We may have got used to reading the papers online, but why should this be free? With the advent of e-book readers, writers and publishers will be benefiting from two income streams for their work. Why should journalism be any different?

I like the idea though of becoming a psuedo-sports star…the closest I’ll ever get no doubt!

K

]]> By: Cambria Politico http://waleshome.org/2010/02/journalism-from-the-bottom-rung/comment-page-1/#comment-6122 Cambria Politico Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:02:01 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=7567#comment-6122 Duncan asked. "Why don’t you commission Katie?" Well yes it's a thought. I am thinking more along the lines of a bursary to (the excellent) Cardiff J-school for trainees like Katie. However, when she's finished she could be sponsored. All she would have to do is wear the, ahem ... T-shirt and produce an article from time to time for the print magazine and contribute to our blogs under her byline. I don't see any barrier to her collecting any number of such sponsorships, including you Duncan. I am sure Wales Home is already thinking of a logo emblazoned article of apparel she could wear. Duncan asked. “Why don’t you commission Katie?”

Well yes it’s a thought. I am thinking more along the lines of a bursary to (the excellent) Cardiff J-school for trainees like Katie. However, when she’s finished she could be sponsored. All she would have to do is wear the, ahem … T-shirt and produce an article from time to time for the print magazine and contribute to our blogs under her byline.
I don’t see any barrier to her collecting any number of such sponsorships, including you Duncan. I am sure Wales Home is already thinking of a logo emblazoned article of apparel she could wear.

]]> By: Duncan Higgitt http://waleshome.org/2010/02/journalism-from-the-bottom-rung/comment-page-1/#comment-6114 Duncan Higgitt Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:06:11 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=7567#comment-6114 Like you wouldn't believe. It's another ice age outside the orbital. Like you wouldn’t believe. It’s another ice age outside the orbital.

]]> By: Rob Williams http://waleshome.org/2010/02/journalism-from-the-bottom-rung/comment-page-1/#comment-6113 Rob Williams Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:40:52 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=7567#comment-6113 Writing for Wales Home is a privilege and a reward in itself. Also Duncan keeps telling me the cheque is in the post....must have been held up by the snow eh? Writing for Wales Home is a privilege and a reward in itself. Also Duncan keeps telling me the cheque is in the post….must have been held up by the snow eh?

]]> By: Duncan Higgitt http://waleshome.org/2010/02/journalism-from-the-bottom-rung/comment-page-1/#comment-6110 Duncan Higgitt Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:28:31 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=7567#comment-6110 CP - your's is a monetised operation. Why don't you commission Katie? CP – your’s is a monetised operation. Why don’t you commission Katie?

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