Comments on: Probably the Worst Question in the World http://waleshome.org/2009/11/probably-the-worst-question-in-the-world/ Independent analysis from and about Wales Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:35:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Efrogwr http://waleshome.org/2009/11/probably-the-worst-question-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-2489 Efrogwr Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:29:10 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=4867#comment-2489 The problems raised here in response to the various suggestions for questions, many of which seem good at first glance, shows how difficult it will be to get a question that is fair and clear. On the clarity point, I think that both "primary law-making powers" and any reference to the Schedule of the Act will be too complicated for the average voter to understand. The problems raised here in response to the various suggestions for questions, many of which seem good at first glance, shows how difficult it will be to get a question that is fair and clear. On the clarity point, I think that both “primary law-making powers” and any reference to the Schedule of the Act will be too complicated for the average voter to understand.

]]> By: Daran Hill http://waleshome.org/2009/11/probably-the-worst-question-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-2431 Daran Hill Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:05:27 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=4867#comment-2431 "To be fair, I was impressed though that via this forum we’ve been able to discuss this issue without resorting to lazy and facile name-calling – ridiculous tags like Anti-Welsh have been gladly absent." So was I! It's a tricky topic but there's been some serious and informed discussion here. Maybe setting the question can be Sir Emyr's next task... “To be fair, I was impressed though that via this forum we’ve been able to discuss this issue without resorting to lazy and facile name-calling – ridiculous tags like Anti-Welsh have been gladly absent.”

So was I!

It’s a tricky topic but there’s been some serious and informed discussion here. Maybe setting the question can be Sir Emyr’s next task…

]]> By: Anthony Hunt http://waleshome.org/2009/11/probably-the-worst-question-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-2421 Anthony Hunt Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:36:02 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=4867#comment-2421 You have a point there David. To be fair, I was impressed though that via this forum we've been able to discuss this issue without resorting to lazy and facile name-calling - ridiculous tags like Anti-Welsh have been gladly absent. Buy, yes, delivering on social justice should always be what drives us on, especially with the task of winning a General Election looming large. You have a point there David. To be fair, I was impressed though that via this forum we’ve been able to discuss this issue without resorting to lazy and facile name-calling – ridiculous tags like Anti-Welsh have been gladly absent. Buy, yes, delivering on social justice should always be what drives us on, especially with the task of winning a General Election looming large.

]]> By: MH http://waleshome.org/2009/11/probably-the-worst-question-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-2414 MH Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:01:41 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=4867#comment-2414 Back in February I was impressed with the simplicity of the way Bethan Jenkins framed the question, namely: "Do you believe the National Assembly for Wales should have primary law-making powers on devolved matters?" To save repeating myself, my thoughts at the time are here http://forums.walesonline.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=97276#97276 but, to cut to the chase, my answer was: "Do you believe the National Assembly for Wales should have primary law-making powers in the areas devolved to it, as set out in Schedule 7 of the Government of Wales Act 2006?" But I gave it a bit more thought last night and you can see the result here http://syniadau--buildinganindependentwales.blogspot.com/2009/11/simple-proposition.html In essence, we can't say "like Scotland" because it's not exactly true ... it is more emotive than precise. Nor can we say "in the areas devolved to it" without qualifying exactly what those areas are, or what the exceptions (which are many) are. There is one definitive list, and that is Schedule 7 of GoWA 2006. So referring to it is not only as precise as it is possible to be, but is also as simple as it is possible to be. Most people seem to prefer talking about "moving to Part 4 of GoWA 2006". And yes, that is correct ... but it primarily describes the mechanism of making Acts of the Assembly as opposed to making Measures. In the end, all that really matters is what the Assembly can and cannot make laws on. Schedule 7 is the definitive list. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/ukpga_20060032_en_19#sch7 Back in February I was impressed with the simplicity of the way Bethan Jenkins framed the question, namely:

“Do you believe the National Assembly for Wales should have primary law-making powers on devolved matters?”

To save repeating myself, my thoughts at the time are here

http://forums.walesonline.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=97276#97276

but, to cut to the chase, my answer was:

“Do you believe the National Assembly for Wales should have primary law-making powers in the areas devolved to it, as set out in Schedule 7 of the Government of Wales Act 2006?”

But I gave it a bit more thought last night and you can see the result here

http://syniadau–buildinganindependentwales.blogspot.com/2009/11/simple-proposition.html

In essence, we can’t say “like Scotland” because it’s not exactly true … it is more emotive than precise. Nor can we say “in the areas devolved to it” without qualifying exactly what those areas are, or what the exceptions (which are many) are.

There is one definitive list, and that is Schedule 7 of GoWA 2006. So referring to it is not only as precise as it is possible to be, but is also as simple as it is possible to be.

Most people seem to prefer talking about “moving to Part 4 of GoWA 2006″. And yes, that is correct … but it primarily describes the mechanism of making Acts of the Assembly as opposed to making Measures. In the end, all that really matters is what the Assembly can and cannot make laws on. Schedule 7 is the definitive list.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/ukpga_20060032_en_19#sch7

]]> By: David Phillips http://waleshome.org/2009/11/probably-the-worst-question-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-2389 David Phillips Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:29:21 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=4867#comment-2389 I think everyone should calm down and leave this question until after the general election. Then "all the people" in Wales can be included in a thorough analysis of the pros and cons of more powers for the Assembly. There does seem to be an unhealthy rush on the part of the few to railroad the many on this issue before a proper reflection of the implications. Relying on one or two dubious opinion poll results is hardly a solid foundation on which to build a compelling case to make a further major change in the constitution. It's quite ironic that the same enthusiasm and sense of mission is absent in the very same voices when it comes to finding and delivering imaginative, creative and practical solutions to the germane, urgent and profound challenges facing Wales going forward. I think everyone should calm down and leave this question until after the general election. Then “all the people” in Wales can be included in a thorough analysis of the pros and cons of more powers for the Assembly.

There does seem to be an unhealthy rush on the part of the few to railroad the many on this issue before a proper reflection of the implications. Relying on one or two dubious opinion poll results is hardly a solid foundation on which to build a compelling case to make a further major change in the constitution.

It’s quite ironic that the same enthusiasm and sense of mission is absent in the very same voices when it comes to finding and delivering imaginative, creative and practical solutions to the germane, urgent and profound challenges facing Wales going forward.

]]> By: Daran Hill http://waleshome.org/2009/11/probably-the-worst-question-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-2387 Daran Hill Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:00:26 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=4867#comment-2387 Idris - "leading" as in posing a non-neutral question. The question needs to be factually correct (or perhaps a preamble does) and then posed in such a way that it does not automatically prompt an answer. It's a tricky balancing act. Idris – “leading” as in posing a non-neutral question. The question needs to be factually correct (or perhaps a preamble does) and then posed in such a way that it does not automatically prompt an answer. It’s a tricky balancing act.

]]> By: Idris http://waleshome.org/2009/11/probably-the-worst-question-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-2386 Idris Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:53:35 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=4867#comment-2386 I like Glyn's suggestion, his use of 'vested' not withstanding of course! I'd be interested to know how you define 'leading' Daran, or indeed how you think the EC would define it. I like Glyn’s suggestion, his use of ‘vested’ not withstanding of course!
I’d be interested to know how you define ‘leading’ Daran, or indeed how you think the EC would define it.

]]> By: Anthony Hunt http://waleshome.org/2009/11/probably-the-worst-question-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-2379 Anthony Hunt Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:28:46 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=4867#comment-2379 Agree, a very worthwhile debate. Still feel some suggestions above are far too complex. Voters will interpret any perceived complexity or ambiguity negatively - especially in the modern political climate if mistrust. Better to ask a simple, straight question, even if it offends some of us anoraks in terms of strict accuracy. (btw, has ever a more prosaic or nerdy thing been written in the interval of an Eddie Izzard gig? I must get a life) Agree, a very worthwhile debate. Still feel some suggestions above are far too complex. Voters will interpret any perceived complexity or ambiguity negatively – especially in the modern political climate if mistrust. Better to ask a simple, straight question, even if it offends some of us anoraks in terms of strict accuracy.

(btw, has ever a more prosaic or nerdy thing been written in the interval of an Eddie Izzard gig? I must get a life)

]]> By: Daran Hill http://waleshome.org/2009/11/probably-the-worst-question-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-2378 Daran Hill Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:16:10 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=4867#comment-2378 On his blog, Glyn Davies also deals with this issue and has come up with: "Do you support progressing to Part 4 of the Government of Wales Act 2006, which entails vesting in the National Assembly for Wales, law making powers in those areas currently devolved?" http://glyndaviesam.blogspot.com/2009/11/whats-to-be-question.html Would be amazed if "vesting" made it into the final version Glyn :) Really enjoyed this interesting thread ever. As ever, David Melding has kicked off a good debate - we're lucky to have him on waleshome.org and we know it On his blog, Glyn Davies also deals with this issue and has come up with:

“Do you support progressing to Part 4 of the Government of Wales Act 2006, which entails vesting in the National Assembly for Wales, law making powers in those areas currently devolved?”

http://glyndaviesam.blogspot.com/2009/11/whats-to-be-question.html

Would be amazed if “vesting” made it into the final version Glyn :)

Really enjoyed this interesting thread ever. As ever, David Melding has kicked off a good debate – we’re lucky to have him on waleshome.org and we know it

]]> By: Welsh Connection http://waleshome.org/2009/11/probably-the-worst-question-in-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-2374 Welsh Connection Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:18:38 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=4867#comment-2374 How about:: Should the National Assembly should gain limited law making powers in certain areas? Or we could include a further clarification: Should the National Assembly should gain limited law making powers in certain areas? (not full law making powers as is the case in Scotland and not independence) or we could ask people to chose between 2 statements: The National Assembly should gain limited law making powers in certain areas immediately. or The National Assembly should continue to gain limited law making powers in certain areas incrementally. How about::

Should the National Assembly should gain limited law making powers in certain areas?

Or we could include a further clarification:

Should the National Assembly should gain limited law making powers in certain areas? (not full law making powers as is the case in Scotland and not independence)

or we could ask people to chose between 2 statements:

The National Assembly should gain limited law making powers in certain areas immediately.

or

The National Assembly should continue to gain limited law making powers in certain areas incrementally.

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