Comments on: Edwina and sexism http://waleshome.org/2009/11/edwina-and-sexism/ Independent analysis from and about Wales Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:09:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Adam Higgitt http://waleshome.org/2009/11/edwina-and-sexism/comment-page-1/#comment-2254 Adam Higgitt Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:19:13 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=4735#comment-2254 Cambria I haven't taken Denis to task for "his contention that there is sexism in politics and that this is manifested in subtle ways". I acknowledge that there is sexism in politics. I then say that the "subtle code" discrimination is harder to prove. That's because it's subtle. My point of disagreement is in Denis's use of Daran's quote as evidence of that subtle code. Daran, as I make clear, was to my mind describing the blunt-speaking side of Edwina's personality that we know exists and which she has chosen to highlight. Denis seems to imply this kind of analysis is off-limits and wouldn't be applied to male politicians. I disagree. Denis I have not used the word "opinionated" in a pejorative sense, but merely to distinguish your piece from a more neutral or objective analysis. Opinion is important in debate, and online. WalesHome.org exists to give a platform to as wide a spectrum of opinions as possible. My own article of this morning was opinionated. Yes, you have amended your article. But it still cites Daran's words as evidence of "subtle code" sexism that would not be used about male politicians. I disagree, and I've provided examples of where the personality traits of male politicians has been openly discussed. I'm not asking you to withdrawn this suggestion or make any further amendments, I'm just disagreeing with you. If you want to take issue with my argument, please do so. Best Adam Cambria

I haven’t taken Denis to task for “his contention that there is sexism in politics and that this is manifested in subtle ways”. I acknowledge that there is sexism in politics. I then say that the “subtle code” discrimination is harder to prove. That’s because it’s subtle.

My point of disagreement is in Denis’s use of Daran’s quote as evidence of that subtle code. Daran, as I make clear, was to my mind describing the blunt-speaking side of Edwina’s personality that we know exists and which she has chosen to highlight. Denis seems to imply this kind of analysis is off-limits and wouldn’t be applied to male politicians. I disagree.

Denis

I have not used the word “opinionated” in a pejorative sense, but merely to distinguish your piece from a more neutral or objective analysis. Opinion is important in debate, and online. WalesHome.org exists to give a platform to as wide a spectrum of opinions as possible. My own article of this morning was opinionated.

Yes, you have amended your article. But it still cites Daran’s words as evidence of “subtle code” sexism that would not be used about male politicians. I disagree, and I’ve provided examples of where the personality traits of male politicians has been openly discussed. I’m not asking you to withdrawn this suggestion or make any further amendments, I’m just disagreeing with you. If you want to take issue with my argument, please do so.

Best

Adam

]]> By: Cambria Politico http://waleshome.org/2009/11/edwina-and-sexism/comment-page-1/#comment-2251 Cambria Politico Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:38:25 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=4735#comment-2251 Having now read both articles, I am not sure why Adam Higgitt feels that he has to take Denis Campbell to task over his contention that there is sexism in politics and that this is manifested in subtle ways through the use of language by certain so-called commentators. I don't think that he is implying that Daran Hill or WalesHome is necessarily or uniquely guilty of this because he cites various other additional sources including BBC's Betsan Powys who, as most people have already noticed, is ...a woman. Denis' article strikes me as being a legitimate 'opinion piece' by an important blogger. Sexism like ageism and other forms of ...ism are endemic in British society but it is not as overt as it used to be in this 'politically correct' day and age. Sexism is, of course, to be deplored in all its forms and we can all agree on that. Having now read both articles, I am not sure why Adam Higgitt feels that he has to take Denis Campbell to task over his contention that there is sexism in politics and that this is manifested in subtle ways through the use of language by certain so-called commentators. I don’t think that he is implying that Daran Hill or WalesHome is necessarily or uniquely guilty of this because he cites various other additional sources including BBC’s Betsan Powys who, as most people have already noticed, is …a woman. Denis’ article strikes me as being a legitimate ‘opinion piece’ by an important blogger.
Sexism like ageism and other forms of …ism are endemic in British society but it is not as overt as it used to be in this ‘politically correct’ day and age. Sexism is, of course, to be deplored in all its forms and we can all agree on that.

]]> By: Denis Campbell http://waleshome.org/2009/11/edwina-and-sexism/comment-page-1/#comment-2250 Denis Campbell Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:25:35 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=4735#comment-2250 Thank you for your comment on my article Adam. It is an important issue that needs debating. The article has generated an interesting “I am not sexist” and “sexism does not exist” furore. I also think you may have been referring to the original article as posted and not the updated piece from last night which might have affected your commentary. I absolutely confess to writing an opinion blog/e-zine, guilty as charged. Does that then deserve the use of the more charged (and by implication 'unprofessional') word ‘opinionated’? Your readers can decide as this blog would also fall into that category, so we should all be careful about the words we use to characterise others. I will tell you that I feel very responsible to get it right and therefore work even harder to balance any charge I make. Late last evening as I re-read both the posting and an e-mail from Daran Hill where he felt I was being unfair for singling him out, I concurred that I was not being fair as his was the only reference. It also was not about him, WalesHome (I do enjoy reading here) or Positif Politics. He had a point. So I spent another hour on an already published story researching other comments of a similar nature. I could have just included anecdotal and overheard references but only wanted items already in print. Would The Western Mail, any other major daily or broadcast channel admit to being mistaken in their execution and update a post anywhere but on the inside bottom left hand corner of Page 17? Media (and indeed campaigns) in the 21st century is (are) about engaging in dialogue, vs. just blasting and sniggering. So I look forward to further dialogue in the future. All best. Denis Campbell UK Progressive Thank you for your comment on my article Adam.

It is an important issue that needs debating. The article has generated an interesting “I am not sexist” and “sexism does not exist” furore. I also think you may have been referring to the original article as posted and not the updated piece from last night which might have affected your commentary.

I absolutely confess to writing an opinion blog/e-zine, guilty as charged. Does that then deserve the use of the more charged (and by implication ‘unprofessional’) word ‘opinionated’? Your readers can decide as this blog would also fall into that category, so we should all be careful about the words we use to characterise others.

I will tell you that I feel very responsible to get it right and therefore work even harder to balance any charge I make. Late last evening as I re-read both the posting and an e-mail from Daran Hill where he felt I was being unfair for singling him out, I concurred that I was not being fair as his was the only reference. It also was not about him, WalesHome (I do enjoy reading here) or Positif Politics.

He had a point. So I spent another hour on an already published story researching other comments of a similar nature. I could have just included anecdotal and overheard references but only wanted items already in print. Would The Western Mail, any other major daily or broadcast channel admit to being mistaken in their execution and update a post anywhere but on the inside bottom left hand corner of Page 17?

Media (and indeed campaigns) in the 21st century is (are) about engaging in dialogue, vs. just blasting and sniggering. So I look forward to further dialogue in the future.

All best.

Denis Campbell
UK Progressive

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