Comments on: Boil it down to the fundamentals

By: James Meyrick

James Meyrick — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 17:16:38 +0000

There’s one thing I take issue with in this post, where Bethan asks:
“Do you want decisions about Wales made in Wales, or in Westminster?”
What I’m not sure of is what exactly are the decisions made about Wales? Scotland has always had its own legal system and various other uniquely Scottish system (EG, they use their own FE qualifications whilst the rest of us use A-Levels), so there are certainly Scottish affairs in politics. Meanwhile, Northern Ireland is recovering from 3 decades of violent conflict and needs a united community effort to help re-build – so there are certainly Northern Ireland affairs. But I can’t think of any political decisions that affecta all of Wales and only Wales. Perhaps tourism and the Welsh language count, but what other Welsh affairs are there?

Bethan goes on to list these policy areas:
“combating child poverty, improving mental health services, ensuring public transport services, better rights for carers – even national flags on number plates”
These are certainly important areas but I don’t understand how they are uniquely Welsh affairs. Surely the problems encountered by mental health patients are no different in Wales than they are anywhere else in the UK? What reason is there for the Assembly to make decisions on these matters if they are exactly the same as the decisions affecting England, Scotland and Northern Ireland? I would have thought the british government and local councils would be better off making these decisions, if only for the efficiency of having one authority addressing them rather than three or four.

I don’t intend to argue against your points as such, I don’t have a dedicated opinion on the welsh assembly. Rather, I find that these are questions that have simply been left unanswered by all sides involved since day one. I find too many statements are going unexplained.

By: Dewi

Dewi — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:35:43 +0000

It’s astonishing that we have to waste a referendum on such an issue. It’s just a process rationalisation. I wish Syr Em had had a look at Calman type powers (beyond his remit I know but he was blathering about the Police!!)

By: Anthony Hunt

Anthony Hunt — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:43:52 +0000

Agree with Michael there. I would go as far as to say that a referendum could well be won or lost on the perceived attitude of the yes campaign – either mock those who are unsure with tags like Colonialists and lose their votes, whilst enabling the no campaign to raise the sceptre of independence. Or, encourage people on board with a rational, reasoned policy-based argument. There may be those tempted towards the former, but if they indulge in self-indulgent fantasy politics, it will come at a cost. Agree with VM there too – but remember, whilst the yes campaign was collegiate, remember the role that party loyalty played – eg the whole Vote yes, vote Blair thing – as much as some people hate to admit it,

By: valleysmam

valleysmam — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:57:21 +0000

Firstly it would be good to revisit the lessons we learned on the first YES campaign:
- That was cross party and very non political
- This referendum is not a political football

It needs to be looked at from the view of whom we are asking, not the bubble deciding what it needs to ask.

I agree we need sensible relevant arguements and we need to sell the benefits to people in Wales – all of the people irrespective of ethnicity, economic circumstances etc. This will be won on a popular,not political vote. Fronting it with politicians is not the way. Maybe a recognisable, Welsh personality or personalities would be key. As I said, this is about PR and Marketing and not manifestos and rhetoric.

By: Michael

Michael — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:59:27 +0000

Oh dear.

“This is what this referendum surely comes to when it is boiled down to the fundamentals. It is at the heart of the issue. It’s the Oliver begging bowl question. Should we have to undergo trial by subservience, begging these London masters for more powers at every juncture, or can we get on with the job here in Wales?”

As a supporter of more powers this just annoys me.

These are the tired arguments of independence; most normal people do not view things this way.

If we base our campaign around this it will be divisive and unsuccessful, putting people of and leaving us with the rump about 8% who support independence.

We cannot afford to scare people off with this colonialism crap, this is not about separating us from the English who lets face it make up a large minority of the Welsh electorate. We need to bring these people with us, with sensible pragmatic arguments explaining how more powers will benefit them.

Put the flag down Bethan and join us in the land of the normal.

By: penddu

penddu — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:53:11 +0000

In my opinion, the reason why the Untrue Wales campaign has been relatively successful to date, is that they have concentrated on one or two simple issues (however misleading) and have used the public’s mistrust of politics to their advantage.

If we are to be successful we need to simplify our message (no more discussions about Part 4, Schedule X, LCO process etc) just keep it simple.

=> We want decisions made in Wales – by the people of Wales – for the benefit of Wales
=> Twist the anti-politician feeling to our advantage by making it anti-Westminster – Clean Cardiff or slimy Wasteminster?
=> Stress that Scotland alreay has more powers than Wales and has done for the last 10 years – why are we being treated as second-class citizens?

But we need to set the aganda – not have it dictated to by some unionist love-in between reactionary conservatives and ageing Labour dinosaurs