Comments on: Let Labour be Labour – but whose version? http://waleshome.org/2009/10/let-labour-be-labour-but-whose-version/ Independent analysis from and about Wales Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:06:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Jeff Jones http://waleshome.org/2009/10/let-labour-be-labour-but-whose-version/comment-page-1/#comment-1191 Jeff Jones Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:46:30 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=3756#comment-1191 But you can't have lawmaking powers for the Assembly without it affecting the relationship between the Labour Party in Wales and the UK Labour Party. The Labour Party in Wales will be in a very different position to the regional Labour Party in Yorkshire. It will be responsible for developing policies on a wide renge of issues which could be very different from those being developed by the UK Labour Party and which will apply only to England. Unfortunately for the Labour Party in Wales, there wasn't a proper debate on devolution and its consequences prior to 1997. Devolution was inherited by Blair from John Smith, and Blair wasn't that interested in the topic. For many party members , support grew for devolution not because they believed in devolved government but as a reaction, as the late Patrick Hannan, pointed out to Thatcherism. Very few saw devolution as part of the major constitutional changes which could see Britain turned into a federal state fit for the 21st century. The result is the confusion of today. For the Nationalists the Assembly is seen as the stepping stone to full independence. But the key question is where does that leave those of us who believe in devolved government but very much like pre 1914 New Liberals within the context of the UK. The three candidates have also got to spell out the answer to the question posed by K. O. Morgan in the latest Fabian Review regarding the issue of 'No representation without taxation.' Any lawmaking institution has to also have revenue raising powers to ensure that it has adequate finance for the implementation of any laws it might pass. But you can’t have lawmaking powers for the Assembly without it affecting the relationship between the Labour Party in Wales and the UK Labour Party. The Labour Party in Wales will be in a very different position to the regional Labour Party in Yorkshire. It will be responsible for developing policies on a wide renge of issues which could be very different from those being developed by the UK Labour Party and which will apply only to England.

Unfortunately for the Labour Party in Wales, there wasn’t a proper debate on devolution and its consequences prior to 1997. Devolution was inherited by Blair from John Smith, and Blair wasn’t that interested in the topic. For many party members , support grew for devolution not because they believed in devolved government but as a reaction, as the late Patrick Hannan, pointed out to Thatcherism. Very few saw devolution as part of the major constitutional changes which could see Britain turned into a federal state fit for the 21st century. The result is the confusion of today.

For the Nationalists the Assembly is seen as the stepping stone to full independence. But the key question is where does that leave those of us who believe in devolved government but very much like pre 1914 New Liberals within the context of the UK.

The three candidates have also got to spell out the answer to the question posed by K. O. Morgan in the latest Fabian Review regarding the issue of ‘No representation without taxation.’ Any lawmaking institution has to also have revenue raising powers to ensure that it has adequate finance for the implementation of any laws it might pass.

]]> By: marcus warner http://waleshome.org/2009/10/let-labour-be-labour-but-whose-version/comment-page-1/#comment-1190 marcus warner Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:23:40 +0000 http://waleshome.org/?p=3756#comment-1190 It was a debate I used to be engaged in, but it seems that there is still too much timidity within Welsh Labour. Labour, like the other unionist parties, seem to still be operating in a pre-devolution time of having one central centrifugal force of power. Devolution has shattered that, and you feel Huw's analysis is strongest here - the fact that Welsh Labour seems unable to respond to the devolutionary realities of today. The problem is that the only real way to achieve this, as I believe a certain A Higgitt called for on this very site, is genuine federalisation. Devolution requires individual responses, based on the status of the party (Government, coaltion, opposition), Labour are not equpped for that at the moment. Bradshaw vs. Hart, clear red water etc would all be more credible under federalisation. You can hardly see the next First Minister of Wales seeing not upsetting the leader of the opposition (who come May is likely to be new Labour Leader) as a priority. Both Welsh and English Labour will need to think of new responses - the current set up does not help that. The elephants in the room are the Welsh Labour MPs, who are a gift to Labour's opponents, and a roadblock to the reform Welsh Labour needs. It was a debate I used to be engaged in, but it seems that there is still too much timidity within Welsh Labour.

Labour, like the other unionist parties, seem to still be operating in a pre-devolution time of having one central centrifugal force of power. Devolution has shattered that, and you feel Huw’s analysis is strongest here – the fact that Welsh Labour seems unable to respond to the devolutionary realities of today.

The problem is that the only real way to achieve this, as I believe a certain A Higgitt called for on this very site, is genuine federalisation.

Devolution requires individual responses, based on the status of the party (Government, coaltion, opposition), Labour are not equpped for that at the moment. Bradshaw vs. Hart, clear red water etc would all be more credible under federalisation. You can hardly see the next First Minister of Wales seeing not upsetting the leader of the opposition (who come May is likely to be new Labour Leader) as a priority. Both Welsh and English Labour will need to think of new responses – the current set up does not help that.

The elephants in the room are the Welsh Labour MPs, who are a gift to Labour’s opponents, and a roadblock to the reform Welsh Labour needs.

]]>