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	<title>Comments on: Labour&#8217;s lack of responsibility has let Rhodri down</title>
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	<link>http://waleshome.org/2009/09/learn-from-our-failings-and-face-up-to-our-responsibilities/</link>
	<description>Independent analysis from and about Wales</description>
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		<title>By: Harsh realities &#171; This is my truth</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2009/09/learn-from-our-failings-and-face-up-to-our-responsibilities/comment-page-1/#comment-337</link>
		<dc:creator>Harsh realities &#171; This is my truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 19:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=1494#comment-337</guid>
		<description>[...] An interesting essay over on WalesHome. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] An interesting essay over on WalesHome. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Waters</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2009/09/learn-from-our-failings-and-face-up-to-our-responsibilities/comment-page-1/#comment-336</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Waters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 19:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=1494#comment-336</guid>
		<description>Very interesting essay.  

One small point of pedantry, it was Dafydd Trystan who did much of the heavy lifting on modernising the Plaid machine.

I&#039;ve tried to make a more substantive response here:
http://www.thisismytruth.org/2009/09/harsh-realities/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting essay.  </p>
<p>One small point of pedantry, it was Dafydd Trystan who did much of the heavy lifting on modernising the Plaid machine.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve tried to make a more substantive response here:<br />
<a href="http://www.thisismytruth.org/2009/09/harsh-realities/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thisismytruth.org/2009/09/harsh-realities/</a></p>
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		<title>By: marcus warner</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2009/09/learn-from-our-failings-and-face-up-to-our-responsibilities/comment-page-1/#comment-334</link>
		<dc:creator>marcus warner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 11:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=1494#comment-334</guid>
		<description>Apols for the SPAG, iphone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apols for the SPAG, iphone.</p>
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		<title>By: marcus warner</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2009/09/learn-from-our-failings-and-face-up-to-our-responsibilities/comment-page-1/#comment-333</link>
		<dc:creator>marcus warner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 11:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=1494#comment-333</guid>
		<description>Hi Owain,

As someone i know and respect, he is the fisking we both wanted...with respect.


&quot;Why should it not be one of the thousands of party members across Wales who raises these questions, who calls for such change?&quot;

A very good question, do you suggest that perhaps ordinary Labour members have largely been shunned under the Blairite centralisation of the party? There are so many issues that Labour members, those people who pound pavements for parachuted candidates that were let down on so many issues.

&quot;These electoral runs are no more than displacement activity. Local parties are too reliant on a slimline party staff. In turn, perhaps our Welsh party HQ should do more to push the real work out to where it belongs – in the field.&quot;

But no questioning of whether centralisation has caused this, do CLPs feel they are able to localise and be autonomous? Does Welsh Labour even feel this is the case? Adam H raised the issue of federalisation on this very site, it should provide an informative feast for Welsh Labour. 

&quot;We are a great party leading a great country. Collectively we can shake ourselves out of this corrosive, institutionalised lethargy and inspire the people of Wales.&quot;

Very uplifting, but how? What exactly is Labour&#039;s new idea for the next ten years? You dont need Labour&#039;s enemies to point out the redundancy of direction within the Brown premiership, many in Labour will say it publicly and without fear. The choice agenda proposed by the Blairite has been shunned in Wales, by Rhodri Morgan, by the candidates to be his successor, any defining narrative seems to have been lost in the political calculation. 

Welsh Labour have lost the knack in separating what is good for Wales and what is good for Labour. Sometimes they of course fit, sometimes they don’t. 

“Trade unions are rarely criticised by Labour politicians in Wales. And yet, despite recent record employment and favourable legislation, they have continued to lose members and failed to sufficiently modernise. While union officials undoubtedly work hard for the causes they represent, they too must change.”

I mean any short of cloth eared would not have heard the consistent and often justified grievances the Trade Unions have raised with New Labour.

“There are two examples of such leadership in recent times within the party, from who are not widely credited as impressive leaders, which is a shame. One is Jane Hutt and the other is Ann Jones AM. Both AMs, one is from deep south, the other from up north.”

Without wishing to do down the hard work those people put in, they only slightly arrested the widespread decline, a decline steeper than anywhere else in the UK.


Of course, you will no doubt defend the article along the lines of it being a look at the cult of leadership, but to merely argue that a few more staff at Transport House will solve things and all will return to Labour winning everything is barmy. Labour is losing members, other parties are gaining, Labour’s ‘machine’, as you imply, is more like an Amiga 500 nowadays.

I take no pleasure in that per se, but how many more times will we have to read and hear the ‘Labour needs to learn lessons’ article? Brown was learning his lessons last year, Welsh Labour was learning lessons after the Euros, to me I sense an attitude that Labour’s decline is merely temporary, and that natural order will be returned forthwith.

Sounds all very conservative to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Owain,</p>
<p>As someone i know and respect, he is the fisking we both wanted&#8230;with respect.</p>
<p>&#8220;Why should it not be one of the thousands of party members across Wales who raises these questions, who calls for such change?&#8221;</p>
<p>A very good question, do you suggest that perhaps ordinary Labour members have largely been shunned under the Blairite centralisation of the party? There are so many issues that Labour members, those people who pound pavements for parachuted candidates that were let down on so many issues.</p>
<p>&#8220;These electoral runs are no more than displacement activity. Local parties are too reliant on a slimline party staff. In turn, perhaps our Welsh party HQ should do more to push the real work out to where it belongs – in the field.&#8221;</p>
<p>But no questioning of whether centralisation has caused this, do CLPs feel they are able to localise and be autonomous? Does Welsh Labour even feel this is the case? Adam H raised the issue of federalisation on this very site, it should provide an informative feast for Welsh Labour. </p>
<p>&#8220;We are a great party leading a great country. Collectively we can shake ourselves out of this corrosive, institutionalised lethargy and inspire the people of Wales.&#8221;</p>
<p>Very uplifting, but how? What exactly is Labour&#8217;s new idea for the next ten years? You dont need Labour&#8217;s enemies to point out the redundancy of direction within the Brown premiership, many in Labour will say it publicly and without fear. The choice agenda proposed by the Blairite has been shunned in Wales, by Rhodri Morgan, by the candidates to be his successor, any defining narrative seems to have been lost in the political calculation. </p>
<p>Welsh Labour have lost the knack in separating what is good for Wales and what is good for Labour. Sometimes they of course fit, sometimes they don’t. </p>
<p>“Trade unions are rarely criticised by Labour politicians in Wales. And yet, despite recent record employment and favourable legislation, they have continued to lose members and failed to sufficiently modernise. While union officials undoubtedly work hard for the causes they represent, they too must change.”</p>
<p>I mean any short of cloth eared would not have heard the consistent and often justified grievances the Trade Unions have raised with New Labour.</p>
<p>“There are two examples of such leadership in recent times within the party, from who are not widely credited as impressive leaders, which is a shame. One is Jane Hutt and the other is Ann Jones AM. Both AMs, one is from deep south, the other from up north.”</p>
<p>Without wishing to do down the hard work those people put in, they only slightly arrested the widespread decline, a decline steeper than anywhere else in the UK.</p>
<p>Of course, you will no doubt defend the article along the lines of it being a look at the cult of leadership, but to merely argue that a few more staff at Transport House will solve things and all will return to Labour winning everything is barmy. Labour is losing members, other parties are gaining, Labour’s ‘machine’, as you imply, is more like an Amiga 500 nowadays.</p>
<p>I take no pleasure in that per se, but how many more times will we have to read and hear the ‘Labour needs to learn lessons’ article? Brown was learning his lessons last year, Welsh Labour was learning lessons after the Euros, to me I sense an attitude that Labour’s decline is merely temporary, and that natural order will be returned forthwith.</p>
<p>Sounds all very conservative to me.</p>
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		<title>By: parry jones</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2009/09/learn-from-our-failings-and-face-up-to-our-responsibilities/comment-page-1/#comment-330</link>
		<dc:creator>parry jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 12:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=1494#comment-330</guid>
		<description>The weakness of the argument stems from building up Rhodri as a statesman. Owain is hardly going to be objective if he&#039;s grown up with the man. Let&#039;s be frank, Rhodri was a great whistleblower in opposition, maintained a &quot;man of the people&quot; aura despite his privileged background and transatlantic education and can capture the mood of the nation well, but gravitas? I think not.
 That&#039;s not why we like him - it&#039;s because he&#039;s not one of &quot;them&quot; but one of &quot;us&quot;. We call him by his first name in a way that &quot;Andrew&quot; or &quot;Huw&quot; or &quot;Jane&quot; (both of them) can only dream of.
 So Rhodri is no world beater, but by comparison with the people Owain refers to, he certainly seems to be.
 The final paragraph was pure whistling in the dark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The weakness of the argument stems from building up Rhodri as a statesman. Owain is hardly going to be objective if he&#8217;s grown up with the man. Let&#8217;s be frank, Rhodri was a great whistleblower in opposition, maintained a &#8220;man of the people&#8221; aura despite his privileged background and transatlantic education and can capture the mood of the nation well, but gravitas? I think not.<br />
 That&#8217;s not why we like him &#8211; it&#8217;s because he&#8217;s not one of &#8220;them&#8221; but one of &#8220;us&#8221;. We call him by his first name in a way that &#8220;Andrew&#8221; or &#8220;Huw&#8221; or &#8220;Jane&#8221; (both of them) can only dream of.<br />
 So Rhodri is no world beater, but by comparison with the people Owain refers to, he certainly seems to be.<br />
 The final paragraph was pure whistling in the dark.</p>
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		<title>By: G</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2009/09/learn-from-our-failings-and-face-up-to-our-responsibilities/comment-page-1/#comment-329</link>
		<dc:creator>G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 09:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=1494#comment-329</guid>
		<description>An essay with some useful points spoilt by weak examples. Ann Jones didn&#039;t &quot;buck the trend or confound the pundits&quot; by scraping in. She and the pundits didn&#039;t think she would come close to losing at anytime but in the end she had the biggest swing against her in N Wales. Since then they have lost seat after seat at local govt level and are weak on the ground in that seat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An essay with some useful points spoilt by weak examples. Ann Jones didn&#8217;t &#8220;buck the trend or confound the pundits&#8221; by scraping in. She and the pundits didn&#8217;t think she would come close to losing at anytime but in the end she had the biggest swing against her in N Wales. Since then they have lost seat after seat at local govt level and are weak on the ground in that seat.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Wood</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2009/09/learn-from-our-failings-and-face-up-to-our-responsibilities/comment-page-1/#comment-328</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 09:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=1494#comment-328</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m probably not the best person to comment on the state of the Welsh Labour Party, but we should probably remember that Ann Jones had a higher swing against her and a larger fall in her vote in 2007 than any of the other Labour candidates in the area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m probably not the best person to comment on the state of the Welsh Labour Party, but we should probably remember that Ann Jones had a higher swing against her and a larger fall in her vote in 2007 than any of the other Labour candidates in the area.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter D Cox</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2009/09/learn-from-our-failings-and-face-up-to-our-responsibilities/comment-page-1/#comment-327</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter D Cox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 07:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=1494#comment-327</guid>
		<description>Until I get a moment to make a considered contribution to this excellent essay - please get an English spell checker. Zeeees infuriate the hell out of me .. you wouldn&#039;t Anglicize (sic) Welsh words, would you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Until I get a moment to make a considered contribution to this excellent essay &#8211; please get an English spell checker. Zeeees infuriate the hell out of me .. you wouldn&#8217;t Anglicize (sic) Welsh words, would you?</p>
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		<title>By: Daran</title>
		<link>http://waleshome.org/2009/09/learn-from-our-failings-and-face-up-to-our-responsibilities/comment-page-1/#comment-325</link>
		<dc:creator>Daran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 06:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waleshome.org/?p=1494#comment-325</guid>
		<description>Interesting comment left by a friend on my facebook page:

&quot;This is making me wonder about the legacy responsibilities and the development of the next generation of political leaders in our country - maybe this could be a new topic of debate for WalesHome.org&quot;

Sounds like an intéresting suggestion...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting comment left by a friend on my facebook page:</p>
<p>&#8220;This is making me wonder about the legacy responsibilities and the development of the next generation of political leaders in our country &#8211; maybe this could be a new topic of debate for WalesHome.org&#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds like an intéresting suggestion&#8230;</p>
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