Comments on: England sleeps on

By: Ian Campbell

Ian Campbell — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:24:55 +0000

If a Cameron government does opt to offer the Scots a vote on independence, this will certainly cause resentment in England unless the English are offered one too.
Despite consistent support for an English Parliament, as noted by your correspondent but which has been supported by similar percentages in credible polls since 2006, England has never voted on a devolved Parliament, let alone on independence. The Unionists persist in saying that there is ‘no demand’ for devolution to an English Pariament but the real reason in their refusing a referendum is that English cannot be relied upon to vote the ‘right way’. In this, the Tories are behaving just as the EU does and no doubt Cameron secretly hopes he will not have to offer a vote on the Lisbon treaty either.
As your correspondent also correctly points out, support for a devolved English Parliament is increasing on the left altough the Unionists have tried to suggest that such a policy attracts only right wing extremists. One of those ‘extremists’ is Frank Field, the sort of MP most of us would be glad to vote for, irrespective of our political preferences. In fact, it is only very recently that the most ‘right wing’ British party (one which is nevertheless largely socialist), that is the BNP, has endorsed the idea. Whereas in the past, the BNP paraded the Union flag, now it frequently appropriates the flag of St George.
Many Unionsts ,such as Cameron, are ‘Greater Englanders’ for whom ‘Britain’ is merely a disguise for England and of course that is why they hate what Cameron calls ‘Little Englanders’ who do not wish to rule over other peoples nor to be ruled over by them. (The greatest ‘Little Englander ‘of all, incidentally, was also one of the greatest Welshmen, David Lloyd George.) Cameron has said that he does not want to be PM ‘just of England’ because he wishes to control Scotland and Wales as well, even if those countries reject Tory government. Labour Party HQ once replied to a complaint from me about the lack of devolution for England with the statement that Scotland and Wales ‘deserved more independence from England’. To them, Wales is still an English colony, one which has been given some ‘home rule’ to discourage the desire for independence. You know what you can do – just as the Tories have only one MP in Scotland, do the same to them in Wales. Force them to face the fact that they are an English party.
Paradoxically, English itself has now in effect become a British ‘colony’, one ruled by the UK government, and one to which it will never grant home rule if it possibly can avoid it. The policy it prefers for England is ‘divide and rule’, that is regional governments, a policy favoured by colonial regimes. Ask why Wales was not offered a full law-making assembly in 1998. It was said by the Labour Government that Wales was ‘not ready yet’ for full devolution – aint that just a good old colonial phrase??

By: Marcus Warner

Marcus Warner — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:26:51 +0000

Echoing what Daran is saying re: interesting times with a Conservative Government.

Wont this be the first time (assuming Cameron wins) that there will be no one party in power in two UK institutions? This brings a very interesting mix.

I support devolution for England, because I feel we cannot have a sensible debate on the future of the UK until we solve that asymmetry. The problem is such debates are always through the prism of self interest – why else has Gordon Brown tried to pump what it means to be British with such vigour? Although there is never going to be perfect symmetry, given the absence of a constitution, it seems the biggest danger to all of us is actually allowing it to fester. Reductions in MPs, more AMs, English votes for English laws are live issues that will need sorting.

Cameron will be a very strong position, Labour is unlikely to win a GE even with Welsh and Scottish MPs, let alone if it was purely English. Plaid and the SNP will need to consider their response to federalisation, particularly given I feel they seem to think EU federalism is great, but UK is not.

RE: the scots voting for independence.

This actually is why Plaid should not be hung up about 2011, I would imagine an independent Scotland would mean Wales could probably ask for a vote for powers far beyond what are on offer now.

By: Daran

Daran — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:15:13 +0000

This is a very interesting issue and one which will come to the fore if a Conservative government is elected. More than ever,new Conservative candidates are openly.questioning the entirity of the !ritish/English conundrum.The automatic, knee jerk and passionate reaction to constitutional change does not run throughout the party as once it did.
This could make for an interesting situation if the Scots vote for independence during a Cameron government.
Lots of ifs and buts, but reckon we could find out how much English Conservative MPs think about defending the status quo pretty damn soon.
Must buy the Melding book though – keep meaning to!